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[prophet665]

Originally Posted by Ubermensch

This is not crazy antics it is an ancient Polynesian war tradition to drink the blood of the defeated. It is not lame it might be he still follows the ancient ways which it totally believable because he does talk about eating pork on purpose to take the pigs mana. If hie believes in the Mana it is something that will give him a psychological edge for everyone he defeats.

I know exactly what he was doing, but the way he went about it (regardless of his reasons) was pure douchebaggery. He was pushing medical personnel and trainers out of the way to do it. I have yet to hear a good argument why he kept the choke on Pulver.

[chungt79]

Yeah, everyone agrees with this piece until BJ loses one day. Then people will say BJ is not only overrated but just plain crap of a fighter who doesnt deserve to be in the UFC.

[Masscore]

Originally Posted by strife

How do the people that like him "blindly" root for him? They like him because they are obviously educated in his accomplishments. I'm sorry, but BJ Penn is not a flavor of the month and you don't get bandwagon fans with him. He is not a fabricated name that is shoved down our throats like some other stars that I won't name.

Who is to say he wouldn't sub Anderson easy? He has subbed harder fighters to sub and it's not like Anderson has world-class jiu-jitsu like Marcelo Garcia or Shinya Aoki, he has been subbed before. You talk like you dislike him and simply say you don't because you don't want to be flamed.

No one denies his losses, but the truth is he DID seperate a rib in the Hughes fight, there's a fuckin medical records of it. He DID lose a close close close decision to GSP, who only won because of 4 takedowns. He DID lose a 5-round decision to Pulver who should of been finished at the end of the second but was saved by the bell. He DID lose a decision to Machida who he fought at heavyweight and who just made a former LHW champion, past his prime or not, look silly as hell. No one is denying these things.

What I don't get is you saying "I don't like Penn because he has so many bandwagoners and nutthuggers." Not a direct quote, but the point you were trying to make is just that. If you dislike him for such a shitty reason you're just missing out on cheering for and enjoying watching fight one of the best fighters on the planet.

Would you maybe read my whole post? Did I ever say that I do not like BJ Penn? No, I said the opposite. I said I am a fan of BJ Penn and think the guy is a class act and a great fighter. I enjoy watching all of his fights because they are usually great fights. Penn v. Hughes II, Pulver v. Penn I and II, Penn v. GSP, Penn v. Serra, all classic and great fights and a few of my all time favorites. He is a great fighter and one of my top ten favorites.

I just do not like nuthuggers of any fighter or any sport. Hell I even annoy myself sometimes with how much I like Matt Hughes lol. Here is a perfect example of what I mean. My friends and I are all Celtics fans and I get very annoyed with them because they are unable to admit that the Celtics could be beaten by the Pistons, Lakers or Spurs and have some major flaws heading into the championship.

Penn couldn't outstrike Machida... Anderson Silva is just as hard to hit and will hit you way more often and harder then Machida. Sorry, I like Penn and all but Anderson Silva would put him to sleep in the first.

[Ifightforaliving]

Originally Posted by chungt79

Yeah, everyone agrees with this piece until BJ loses one day. Then people will say BJ is not only overrated but just plain crap of a fighter who doesnt deserve to be in the UFC.

unlike most fighters Penn has a loyal following he is not a bandwagon type fighter he will always have more loyal fans than say Chuck or Kimbo. His fans stick. Hell as soon as Kimbo loses he will lose fans like crazy. If Chuck loses he will lose more fans than he already has. After that ass whoopin by Rampage a few jumped,but when Jardine beat him the bars where then silenced with all the chuck love.

[Masscore]

Originally Posted by Ifightforaliving

unlike most fighters Penn has a loyal following he is not a bandwagon type fighter he will always have more loyal fans than say Chuck or Kimbo. His fans stick. Hell as soon as Kimbo loses he will lose fans like crazy. If Chuck loses he will lose more fans than he already has. After that ass whoopin by Rampage a few jumped,but when Jardine beat him the bars where then silenced with all the chuck love.

Lets for agrument sake, say Penn gets KOed by Florian in 1:53. Then he gets outpointed by Maynard in the fight after. I am sure he would lose some of his fans as well.

But at the same time, I doubt you would find anyone that would agrue that Liddell is not the most popular fight in the UFC still. Because lets be honest, the guy is and will probably always be the most popular fighter in the UFC until he retires.

[TN94z]

That is a very good write up man!!! Repd!!!! I am going to save that!! For a young guy like Penn to not only earn his BJJ black belt in 3 years but to win theBJJ world championships in that same time is completely amazing!!! This article is exaclty why I like BJ so much. He has fought from LW-HW and dominated most. Now that he has rededicated himself to MMA, I can't wait to see the string he puts together now!!!

[chungt79]

Originally Posted by Ifightforaliving

unlike most fighters Penn has a loyal following he is not a bandwagon type fighter he will always have more loyal fans than say Chuck or Kimbo. His fans stick. Hell as soon as Kimbo loses he will lose fans like crazy. If Chuck loses he will lose more fans than he already has. After that ass whoopin by Rampage a few jumped,but when Jardine beat him the bars where then silenced with all the chuck love.

He definitely has a loyal following but to say he wont lose much fans after a loss is absurd. Anyone who needs to read this to be convinced BJ is awesome has potential to change their minds as soon as he loses.

[rivethead]

Originally Posted by jokerthief

The impetus of that debate is on you. You need to come up with a great reason why the judges were wrong, not the other way around. The only way I can see giving BJ that fight is if it had happened in Pride and not the UFC, which is not a good argument at all. That is the problem with the fight for Penn advocates, BJ has to win the second or third by some sort of ethereal rational under UFC rules to justify taking either of those rounds.

Despite the fact that you missed the point of my post, I catagorically disagree with your statement. The fact that it was a split decision indicates that one judge agreed with me. Not a PRIDE judge, a UFC judge. Thus, the decision remains tangibly controversial, regardless of attempts at revisionist history.

My initial post was focused on blindness of fans not being isolated to Penn fanboys. I brought up the fact that a long-time member of the forum felt GSP took BJ down "whenever he wanted," which goes well beyond ethereal rationale and travels firmly into myopic irrationality.

I understand that I'm not going to convince a GSP fan that their hero lost any more than they'll convince me that BJ was beaten. My concern is minimally trying to keep things in perspective and avoid revisionist nonsense like "He took him down at will" and "he totally outwrestled Kos, etc..."

rh

[Masscore]

Originally Posted by rivethead

Despite the fact that you missed the point of my post, I catagorically disagree with your statement. The fact that it was a split decision indicates that one judge agreed with me. Not a PRIDE judge, a UFC judge. Thus, the decision remains tangibly controversial, regardless of attempts at revisionist history.

My initial post was focused on blindness of fans not being isolated to Penn fanboys. I brought up the fact that a long-time member of the forum felt GSP took BJ down "whenever he wanted," which goes well beyond ethereal rationale and travels firmly into myopic irrationality.

I understand that I'm not going to convince a GSP fan that their hero lost any more than they'll convince me that BJ was beaten. My concern is minimally trying to keep things in perspective and avoid revisionist nonsense like "He took him down at will" and "he totally outwrestled Kos, etc..."

rh

One thing that does hurt your argument a little and I think that a lot of people overlook. Cecil Peoples was the one that though BJ Penn won... I mean he is not a guy I would use to defend my agrument ever.

But other then that, I agree with your post and rep.

[rivethead]

Originally Posted by Masscore

One thing that does hurt your argument a little and I think that a lot of people overlook. Cecil Peoples was the one that though BJ Penn won... I mean he is not a guy I would use to defend my agrument ever.

But other then that, I agree with your post and rep.

If I had to choose Peoples over 90% of this forum, I would. Particularly people who try to re-write history.

GSP is an impressive enough guy who is still learning the sport, he doesn't need nuthugger embellishments...it just makes reactionary people hate him, because they don't like his fans, and brings unnecessary drama to the board.

rh