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[Madd Wilk]

Originally Posted by LookitsLance

No, because before that fight Forrest wasn't even ranked and Shogun was #1, rankings don't work like that.

Since Forrest wasn't even ranked, and Shogun lost to an unranked fighter, don' you think his stock should have dropped a little more than just one spot?

I could see him dropping one rank if he lost to someone ranked in the top five, but to an unranked fighter? He should be at or around #5 IMO due to that loss where he got his a** kicked for three rounds and then choked out by an unranked fighter coupled with his inactivity.

I really like Shogun though and Im really looking forward to seeing how he rebounds from his injuries. Anyone heard any rumors on who he could be facing next?

[Viper2076]

Originally Posted by Madd Wilk

Since Forrest wasn't even ranked, and Shogun lost to an unranked fighter, don' you think his stock should have dropped a little more than just one spot?

I could see him dropping one rank if he lost to someone ranked in the top five, but to an unranked fighter? He should be at or around #5 IMO due to that loss where he got his a** kicked for three rounds and then choked out by an unranked fighter coupled with his inactivity.

I really like Shogun though and Im really looking forward to seeing how he rebounds from his injuries. Anyone heard any rumors on who he could be facing next?

I don't think anyone could have put it better. Shogun was a freakin stud in PRIDE. He put on a mediocre performance against Forrest and hasn't fought since. He shouldn't be ranked in the Top 5.

I also understand that he fought Forrest with a ruptured ACL. Having ruptured my ACL once and torn it twice, I understand that it takes a beast to even go into a fight like that. That still doesn't rate a Top 5 ranking. Just my opinion though.

I still think I could take Anderson Silva.

[rivethead]

Originally Posted by Madd Wilk

Since Forrest wasn't even ranked, and Shogun lost to an unranked fighter, don' you think his stock should have dropped a little more than just one spot?

I could see him dropping one rank if he lost to someone ranked in the top five, but to an unranked fighter? He should be at or around #5 IMO due to that loss where he got his a** kicked for three rounds and then choked out by an unranked fighter coupled with his inactivity.

I really like Shogun though and Im really looking forward to seeing how he rebounds from his injuries. Anyone heard any rumors on who he could be facing next?

Ask all the people who ranked GSP over Serra right after Serra knocked him out, or all the people who still have him #1 p4p after losing to an unranked natural LW, and then coming back to beat him.

Rankings are personal opinions, nothing more.

It's my opinion that Shogun is still top 5. Yes, he does have the loss to Forrest, but not the string of losses that Liddell or Wandi have, and he has bigger wins than Lyoto right now. If he loses again, or doesn't fight at all this year, sure, drop him further...but for now, he's had one loss in something like two years? To a guy that outweighed him by 40+ pounds? And with an absolutely dominating win over the standing champion, he's got a better resume than anyone else who you'd put in top 5, I'd bet.

rh

[Bullock]

Originally Posted by neonatural45

Sonnen would control Franklin on the ground for 3 rounds, Franklin could never stop his takedowns and on the feet Sonnen can hang. On the ground Franklin doesn't have the level of BJJ that the people who have sub'd Sonnen have.

Filho would take Franklin down and sub him in the first. I think there are alot of other guys in the UFC at 185 who would sub Franklin in the first, and IMO Franklin didn't look good against Lutter at all.

Franklin looked better against Lutter than Silva did.

As for the rest, agree to disagree. Thanks for the laughs, and the insight.

[Madd Wilk]

Originally Posted by rivethead

Ask all the people who ranked GSP over Serra right after Serra knocked him out, or all the people who still have him #1 p4p after losing to an unranked natural LW, and then coming back to beat him.

Rankings are personal opinions, nothing more.

It's my opinion that Shogun is still top 5. Yes, he does have the loss to Forrest, but not the string of losses that Liddell or Wandi have, and he has bigger wins than Lyoto right now. If he loses again, or doesn't fight at all this year, sure, drop him further...but for now, he's had one loss in something like two years? To a guy that outweighed him by 40+ pounds? And with an absolutely dominating win over the standing champion, he's got a better resume than anyone else who you'd put in top 5, I'd bet.

rh

Most of the WW rankings I saw when Serra was champ had Serra at #1 and GSP at 3 or 4, some did have him at 2 though. In your opinion, is Forrest considered to be as much of a fluke as Serra was? It is my opinion that Forrest is a more credible top 5 fighter than Matt Serra. Serra won by flash knock out. Griffin won after 3 entire (almost) rounds of dishing out a serious a** kicking then finalized it with a choke.

As for Liddell, two losses in 5 years, constant top contender competition, definitely puts him one spot above Shogun. Shogun choses to fight at LHW. Each fighter weighs in at 205 so a 40 lb weight differential is not really relative. Machida with all his recent activity and dismantling of Soko and Ortiz is in front of Shogun as well, IMO. If Shogun comes back from injury and destroys whoever they put in front of him, which is a very real possibility, then I see him in the #2 or #3 spot if that opponent that he beats is a top-5 contender.

I think the UFC had the right idea with the Liddell - Shogun matchup, too bad it fell through. IMO Rashad Evans is a very lucky man to be fighting Liddell at this point in his career, I personally feel that he needs another win over a top-10 opponent before he gets Liddell.

In conclusion, you made some good points and a good argument, rep'd

[ninjastix]

Originally Posted by Madd Wilk

Most of the WW rankings I saw when Serra was champ had Serra at #1 and GSP at 3 or 4, some did have him at 2 though. In your opinion, is Forrest considered to be as much of a fluke as Serra was? It is my opinion that Forrest is a more credible top 5 fighter than Matt Serra. Serra won by flash knock out. Griffin won after 3 entire (almost) rounds of dishing out a serious a** kicking then finalized it with a choke.

Flash knock out?.... :headscratch: Which one of the 37 punches that hit GSP was the flash KO? And while Griffin certainly controlled Shogun and landed some good shots on him throughout the fight, I'd hardly say be gave him a serious asskicking... He definitely out worked Shogun to lock in the choke...

In the realm of why Shogun is 2, the answer is that all your fights are a factor, not sure your last one.

[rivethead]

Originally Posted by Madd Wilk

Most of the WW rankings I saw when Serra was champ had Serra at #1 and GSP at 3 or 4, some did have him at 2 though. In your opinion, is Forrest considered to be as much of a fluke as Serra was? It is my opinion that Forrest is a more credible top 5 fighter than Matt Serra. Serra won by flash knock out. Griffin won after 3 entire (almost) rounds of dishing out a serious a** kicking then finalized it with a choke.

As for Liddell, two losses in 5 years, constant top contender competition, definitely puts him one spot above Shogun.

Top contender competition for the UFC...but not top worldwide. Rampage was the first guy with great striking that Chuck had faced, and losing to Jardine, another unranked LHW for his second consecutive loss puts him below Rua, in my opinion.

I didn't mean to turn this into a GSP/Serra thread, so I'm just not going there.

Originally Posted by Madd Wilk

Shogun choses to fight at LHW. Each fighter weighs in at 205 so a 40 lb weight differential is not really relative.

Uhm...he lost to Coleman in an open weight fight. Coleman did not weigh in at 205, so a 40lb weight differential is absolutely relative. It would indicate that dispite fighting a veritable who's-who of fighters, in 5 years, his only loss at LHW is to Forrest, when he was injured. Huge, dominating wins over Overeem, Little Nogs, Randleman, Arona, and Rampage...that's a huge resume.

Originally Posted by Madd Wilk

Machida with all his recent activity and dismantling of Soko and Ortiz is in front of Shogun as well, IMO.

I don't think he's got the resume...yet. I think he very well might within the year, but right now, I think Shogun has the better record.

Originally Posted by Madd Wilk

If Shogun comes back from injury and destroys whoever they put in front of him, which is a very real possibility, then I see him in the #2 or #3 spot if that opponent that he beats is a top-5 contender.

I think the UFC had the right idea with the Liddell - Shogun matchup, too bad it fell through. IMO Rashad Evans is a very lucky man to be fighting Liddell at this point in his career, I personally feel that he needs another win over a top-10 opponent before he gets Liddell.

In conclusion, you made some good points and a good argument, rep'd

If Shogun comes back to face Liddell and wins, I feel he's unquestionably the #1 contender. If he beats anyone else in the top 10, and Liddell and Wandi and Machida all keep winning, you could argue someone else for getting a shot, but time will tell. I think they'll set up Soku/Shogun, and it will end badly for Soku.

I think Rashad is not lucky at all to face Chuck. A year ago, he might have been lucky, but I think Chuck knows the only way he gets another shot is to keep winning, and will be more focused than ever. If Chuck shows up like he did for Wandi, he gives Evans his first loss in graphic fashion.

rh

[Bullock]

Rashad is a perfect opponent for Chuck: a wrestler w/ mediocre striking skills.

[rivethead]

Originally Posted by Bullock

Rashad is a perfect opponent for Chuck: a wrestler w/ mediocre striking skills.

Even better...a wrestler with mediocre striking skills and a big, recognizable name.

rh

[ChrisAM90]

Originally Posted by Madd Wilk

No one has mentioned this yet...but why is Shogun #2 in LHW standings? He just lost to Forrest. Wouldn't that put Forrest above him?

Well then, Quinton got knocked out by Shogun should'nt he be above Quinton?
Don't pay attention to ratings in my opinion, just watch the fights.