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[atj-lucko]

Originally Posted by smoogy

Maybe Franklin will get some respect when he actually beats a top level opponent decisively? Until then he is still overrated

I was gonna say the same thing Rich underrated? maybe overrated, he lost to Machida, barely won Okami and was destroyed twice by Silva.

[neonatural45]

Jamie Varner, Amar Suloev, Yoshiyuki Yoshida, and Din Thomas.


Your list is pretty brutal, Clementi has beaten Sam Stout and Terry Etim by close decisions and sub'd Melvin Guillard. Woot woot.

[AngryJohnny]

Cung Le, though I hope he fights a few more times before going full fledged movie star.

[Dork8503]

Originally Posted by smoogy

Maybe Franklin will get some respect when he actually beats a top level opponent decisively? Until then he is still overrated

Their was no question in the Okami fight, Franklin clearly won that fight. Neither did anything but Franklin still won and the win really isn't debatable.

Outside of Okami and the Crow who Franklin bent over an ass raped for 5 rounds, he has finished everyone of his fights.

Only losses coming from Anderson and Lyoto.

Don't really see what else he has to prove.

Thats why i want to see a fight between Rich and Nate.

Well even if Rich did knock out or tko Nate, people still wouldn't give him respect.

[smoogy]

Originally Posted by Dork8503

Their was no question in the Okami fight, Franklin clearly won that fight. Neither did anything but Franklin still won and the win really isn't debatable.

Outside of Okami and the Crow who Franklin bent over an ass raped for 5 rounds, he has finished everyone of his fights.

Only losses coming from Anderson and Lyoto.

Don't really see what else he has to prove.

Thats why i want to see a fight between Rich and Nate.

Well even if Rich did knock out or tko Nate, people still wouldn't give him respect.

Nobody is disputing the win, but when one guy spends two thirds of the fight warming up and then loses 29-28 without taking any real damage, its hard to call it a big win

Everyone mentions how he has "only" lost to Lyoto and Silva (twice), but another way to look at it is that in his four toughest fights, he has won two rounds total and been KO'd three times

I'm not saying he isn't good, but the guy literally has one ho-hum decision win over true contender-level competition and thats it. Who cares if he KO'd a green Nate Quarry or worked a TKO with Ken Shamrock, a bunch of little wins don't take the place of big ones.

[hunterkiller]

The fact that we have to argue Rich Franklin's validity as an elite caliber fighter just proves that he is underrated.

If you are going to call Franklin overrated, then you have to call Anderson Silva overrated because Anderson's biggest wins were over Franklin. If you take Anderson's wins over Franklin away, his only other elite fighter he beat in the UFC was Henderson. Leben and Marquardt are on the same level as all of Franklins wins.

IMO, Anderson Silva is the best fighter in the world right now. He made Franklin look bad. Had Anderson Silva not came along, we would have seen Franklin-Henderson and would have a better feel for how Franklin is.

Franklin has nothing to prove to me. He'd still be champ if the wrecking ball Silva hadn't came along. He was a great champion and that just makes Anderson that much better. Anyone who says otherwise has the right to that opinion. I don't agree with it but not everyone has the same opinion.

[Dork8503]

Originally Posted by smoogy

Nobody is disputing the win, but when one guy spends two thirds of the fight warming up and then loses 29-28 without taking any real damage, its hard to call it a big win

Everyone mentions how he has "only" lost to Lyoto and Silva (twice), but another way to look at it is that in his four toughest fights, he has won two rounds total and been KO'd three times

I'm not saying he isn't good, but the guy literally has one ho-hum decision win over true contender-level competition and thats it. Who cares if he KO'd a green Nate Quarry or worked a TKO with Ken Shamrock, a bunch of little wins don't take the place of big ones.

Really hope your not saying the Rich vs Shamrock fight was a work because if so, then thats a real shame. I mean seeing Shamrock losing to Tito those last 2 times an i believe his name was berry not long ago, those all were works too.

Franklin has been i believe Ko'd 1 time and tko'ed 2 times. There is a difference between the 2.

So then i guess if Franklin is over rated that means Okami is over rated.

Because Franklin has beaten better guys then Okami has, an a bunch of Okamis wins are against Comp that isn't even that good. Not to mention his loss to a WW in Shields, not knocking shields because the guy is a bad ass.

Okami has beat exactly who, Anderson people might say. Well as i remember Anderson knocking him out an being dq'ed so its not like he really beat Anderson. Every time Okami has faced some stiff comp, well not every time but he has lost.

So like i said if Rich is over rated then Okami is seriously over rated. I mean at least Franklin finishes most of his fights.

He has lost against 1 fighter at MW, an that 1 fighter is running threw everyone making them all look bad.

He smashed Mac when Okami had to lay on him for 3 rounds. Tooled Tanner 2 times, that is when Tanner was considered to be a top fighter.

And saying it well out of his 4 toughest fights he only has won 2 rounds, makes it sound like he lost all 4 fights.

If it were not for Anderson, no one would be questioning how good Rich is.

I mean i guess Nate, Lutter, Hendo, Leben, they are all cans or over rated because Anderson finished all of them.

Rich hasn't faced all elite fighters, or many, but the thing is, he dominates everyone else, he finishes them. He has 2 decisions, outside of that he has knocked out, tkoed, or subbed everyone.

No one ever questioned Denis Kang, people just said he was great an a top 5 fighter, because he literally had wins over a bunch of cans. At least Franklin's wins were not over that bad of comp.

Only now are people saying Kang is over rated because he keeps losing, but still even gets less shit then Franklin.

I really hope Franklin fights Nate, or Filho moves to UFC so they can be beat, because with a win over either i don't believe people can continue to call him over rated. But then again who really knows.

Rich could go on to fight Henderson, finish him and people would say ah well Hendo isn't the same fighter, he is over the hill.

An something else, i can sit an find a few elite fighters that have won fights but struggled an they don't get the same kind of shit as Rich.

[subman]

Coy said:

"The fact that we have to argue Rich Franklin's validity as an elite caliber fighter just proves that he is underrated."

Or, EXACTLY the opposite. The fact that we debate his validity shows he just a'int there, in the top echelon. The Crow has had his ass handed to him on multiple occasions. Beating David is not the sign of a great fighter.

Show me some top guys getting bent by Rich, and I am on the bandwagon. They aren't there...

[Dork8503]

Lets take smoogys MW rankings and lets look at some of them.


Filho - Show me where he has beaten a bunch of top comp, lately he has just looked like a shell of his former self. Still has a lack of wins over top comp.

Hendo - Again he has not beaten a bunch of Top MW's either, a few of his wins at MW were controversial.

Robbie Lawler - Really who has he beat.

Misaki - Same here too, doesn't have many top wins.

Okami- His biggest was getting knocked out by Anderson only to have it be a win.

Akiyama - Same goes for him, outside of Kang what top fighters has he beaten, I mean you could say Melvin but out side of his sick fucking stand up the guy has a pretty shit ground game.

Mousasi - his biggest win was Kang again he falls into the category of lack of top comp.

Lindland - Has no top wins over MW's in the last few years.

Trigg - Doesn't really have many top wins at MW.

Almeida - Who has he beaten in the last 4 years

Mayhem - not many top wins.

Kang - What top wins does he exactly have.


And no i am not calling everyone one of these guys can, over rated or anything because they are all good.

But I can make a case for pretty much everyone on this list to be over rated. But yet no one says anything about them, they just pick on Franklin.

I mean by Smoogys logic most of them are Over rated because not many of them have top elite wins. Some just have wins over 1 guy on the top 10 an wins over a bunch of smaller fighters.

[Dr. MMA]

Most MWs haven't beat top competition besides Anderson Silva. Most of them haven't even faced more than one top 10. Some of them have faced only one top 10 their whole career. It seems like most mws just go up the rankings by facing cans than beating tough competition. So if you're saying Frankiln is overrated well then almost every mw is overrated because of their lack of high calibre competition.

Hendo's case is a little different as his big wins were in LHW. However, he did trade a couple victories with Misaki and Bustamante (when Murilo was a top mw)