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[thumper]

Originally Posted by Ubermensch

Use to train with them first when they were in Chandler AZ right of the 10 and Pecos. Pre BFS and House of Pain.

Have we talked about this stuff before? I live in Chandler right now. I work at Intel which is on Chandler and Rural. So I nabbed a condo on Arizona ave and Ray rd. (didn't know it was mexico)

[Ubermensch]

Yea I use to live on Orchid lane between Alma and AA. Yes you are in Mexico. You know that Hari Krishnah temple that is off Pecos and the 10. Thats the old Fairtex training facility. They also use to train attack Dogs and there were some dudes that use to board there. Well they would put those padded suits on them and let the dogs have a go so they could earn their room and board... Crazy thai MF's hahaha. I would never do that.

[Tick]

Originally Posted by mattc25

The comparison made with Shogun and Dante Culpepper is not a good one,Culpepper tore all 3 ligaments in his knee,Shogun tore his ACL. There a lot of success stories with ACL surgeries. The second operation Shogun had was prob to clean up scar tissue,which is normal is most high profile athletes.

If I remember the second operation was because he tried to come back to quickly... Didn't he retair his ACL again?

The tricky thing about getting ligaments fixed is that the moment it starts feeling its best, it is at it's weakest. 16 weeks in or something it is actually very weak. This is because the Graff (spelling?) that was surgically put is is partially broken down, while the your cells that are growing around it are not fully built up and strong yet. So even though your knee feels great, you run a huge risk of stretching out the ligament and re-taring it. chances are, considering he scheduled a fight 5 months or 6 months after surgery, this was the situation with him.

I have F'd up my knee's and learned that from doctors. I have torn my ACL in both knee's (twice in my right, first doctor was nick named "The Butcher" and I learned that after) and my meniscus 4 times (three times in one knee).


Now, with a torn ACL you can actually live with. You can do squats and stuff with a torn acl. You just don't have alot of lateral movment. The ACL holds together your upper and lower portions of your knee. So things like cutting or sudden change in direction will be effected.


If Shogun has had 3 operations on his knee in under a year, then his knee will never be the same. Just the arthritis that will come from all that damage will hurt most in the long run.

Thats just my $.02.

[hunterkiller]

Originally Posted by mattc25

.....Shogun did not have surgery till after the fight with Forrest so he could have defintely got his cardio where it needed to be. I personally tore mine and did not have surgery for full year or so and I was still very active....until I had the surgery then I was done for a while.


The comparison made with Shogun and Dante Culpepper is not a good one,Culpepper tore all 3 ligaments in his knee,Shogun tore his ACL. There a lot of success stories with ACL surgeries. The second operation Shogun had was prob to clean up scar tissue,which is normal is most high profile athletes.

There are countless others that have torn their ACL and never been the same.

As far as Culpepper is concerned, it's true, he did tear his MCL and PCL as well but neither of those are nearly as severe as an ACL tear. The ACL is the major ligament in the knee that allows a person to pivot and change direction. When that is weakened, you mobility is severely hampered and when it's torn, it's never 100 percent again.

The MCL and PCL are not nearly as important to mobility as the ACL is.

Believe me, I hope I'm wrong with concern to Shogun. I have often dreamed of the days where he came to the UFC and destroyed Chuck Liddell. I hope it's not too far off in the future. I just don't think he'll ever be the same.

[amosaback]

Originally Posted by ninjastix

I think his cardio was a bigger issue than his knee... Hands down early round II is a bad sign...

What's the harm in saying he just took Forrest lightly and didn't train to his fullest?

You can't get great cardio if your knee is jacked up. That's the problem.

[thumper]

Originally Posted by thecoylewis

I'm not talking about him being done because he lost to Forrest. I'm talking about the knee never being the same. A torn ACL completely destroys your mobility and when you can't move as a fighter, your in for it.

I could care less about the loss to Forrest. I AM ONLY referring to the knee injury. A torn ACL is a very bad thing and then when you have to follow that up with more surgery, it doesn't give a good outlook on a return.

Yeah I see what you're saying, and I shouldn't have directed that to you.

Now that two threads have been merged it was already posted by me anyway.

Sorry!

[hunterkiller]

Originally Posted by thumper

Yeah I see what you're saying, and I shouldn't have directed that to you.

Now that two threads have been merged it was already posted by me anyway.

Sorry!

That av is too funny.

[neonatural45]

Originally Posted by Tick

If I remember the second operation was because he tried to come back to quickly... Didn't he retair his ACL again?

The tricky thing about getting ligaments fixed is that the moment it starts feeling its best, it is at it's weakest. 16 weeks in or something it is actually very weak. This is because the Graff (spelling?) that was surgically put is is partially broken down, while the your cells that are growing around it are not fully built up and strong yet. So even though your knee feels great, you run a huge risk of stretching out the ligament and re-taring it. chances are, considering he scheduled a fight 5 months or 6 months after surgery, this was the situation with him.

I have F'd up my knee's and learned that from doctors. I have torn my ACL in both knee's (twice in my right, first doctor was nick named "The Butcher" and I learned that after) and my meniscus 4 times (three times in one knee).


Now, with a torn ACL you can actually live with. You can do squats and stuff with a torn acl. You just don't have alot of lateral movment. The ACL holds together your upper and lower portions of your knee. So things like cutting or sudden change in direction will be effected.


If Shogun has had 3 operations on his knee in under a year, then his knee will never be the same. Just the arthritis that will come from all that damage will hurt most in the long run.

Thats just my $.02.

Meniscus three fucking times? lol that is harsh luck there. I thought I had it bad, I tore my meniscus and then later got the unhappy triad (Torn Meniscus, ACL, and MCL.). The last one sucked

[Tick]

Originally Posted by neonatural45

Meniscus three fucking times? lol that is harsh luck there. I thought I had it bad, I tore my meniscus and then later got the unhappy triad (Torn Meniscus, ACL, and MCL.). The last one sucked

I can not imagine what it is like to tear the ACL, MCL, and meniscus at once... It sucks enough tearing 1 at a time, or just the ACL and Meniscus...

What sucks with this is I am 26, and will probable need a knee replacement i the next 10 years because of arthritis... and to put this on topic...

Has any MMA person ever competed after a knee / hip replacement? Shogun is on his way to needing one at a young age with all these knee surgeries he is getting. This WILL shorten his career as being a top at 205 and P4P. I wouldnt be surprised to see he drops a weight class soon. A few reasons this would be a good idea.

1) He will be a big middle weight
2) Walking around everyday at a lighter weight will be easier on his joints / knees, which in the long run can make him have less pain and be able to train harder
3) Shogun vs Franklin ; Shogun vs Henderson ; Shogun vs Anderson ; Shogun vs Okami ; Shogun vs Cote ; Shogun vs Almedia Need I say more with that?

[ninjastix]

Originally Posted by amosaback

You can't get great cardio if your knee is jacked up. That's the problem.

Then you shouldn't he have fought... if you can't train for a fight, what would lead you to believe that you can fight?

I don't buy this excuse, going into a fight without having tip top cardio would lead me to believe he was more than confident he could finish Forrest without much trouble... which to me is underestimating your opponent...

Other fighters have still managed to have a gas tank while being injured, and I'm not bashing Shogun, but I think it should be more than obvious to fight fans that he didn't treat Forrest as a threat, and THAT is why he lost...

I don't buy this "knee" argument...