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[kc56]

Originally Posted by Palma

You know what? I rewatched the first round and I actually agree with you to an extent. That round could have gone either way. I don't agree that GSP was landing elbows and strikes. He was throwing them and nothing landed while Koscheck landed to nice rights at the end of the round, which is probably why the majority of the judges gave him that round 10-9.

As for trying to sink the same submission for over half of the round: If you don't get it right away and you are only holding on to it to maintain position then I'm sorry, but that is certainly a form of Lay and Pray. You have your opinion and I have mine, but any fighter who is content to hold people on the ground and just do enough activity to not the fight stood up in order to win the round with their control is utilizing LandP. And GSP and Koscheck are both guilty of that... not every fight, but they will resort to it if they have to as opposed to taking chances to finish the fight.

That's fair enough.
It had been awhile since I had seen the fight too, and it got hazy, so with everyone saying it was pure LnP the whole fight, I had to go back and watch it again, and the win was more solid than I remembered. I'm not going to pick nits as far as who landed more the first round, but GSP's elbows were landing in the 3rd.

As for the second? GSP went for that Kimura 3 different times, so it's not like he got in position and laid there. He tried to pull Kos's arm out a number of times, and let go to try and land some strikes to get the sub. I will agree with anyone that cites GSP's poor form on a Kimura throughout the 2nd round, but I don't think it was LnP.

You can't really say He LnP the whole fight either, because in the 3rd round, GSP was "content to stand" with Kos and was getting the better of it until Kos went for the takedown.

As you said, we both have our opinions and can agree to disagree on how we viewed it.

[rivethead]

/\ just to clarify...I've never said it wasn't a clear win, I just don't consider it a dominant performance /\

I think people want to lump it in with some of the other fights GSP has had, and use it to illustrate how much he's progressed, etc...and I just don't feel that's the case. Winning two rounds convincingly wins you a fight, without a doubt...but it's not dominant, in my opinion.

Particularly since neither fighter looked particularly busted up or gassed after it.

rh

[paintstik]

Originally Posted by kc56

I think I didn't covey my point well on the Kimura. What I was saying was that GSP had poor technique on his Kimura, thereby preventing him from winning the fight.

I just re-watched the fight. Aside from you having VERY selective memory to slight GSP on a great win, I have no clue how anyone gave Kos the first round.

4:30 TD GSP
4:02 pass to half guard.
3:18 back to full.
2:27 back to half.
The whole time, GSP landed punches and elbows.

Then...

1:41 Kos stands up and gets stuffed with his first TD attempt.
1:26 Kos gets the takedown.
Between then and the end of the round, he lands maybe 3 shots.

Rd 2
439 TD GSP
433 pass to half guard
351 Kimura attempt
322 Kimura attempt
239 GSP side control (lands punches and elbows)
206 scramble puts GSP back in full guard.
153 half guard
125 kimura attempt till the end of round with leg behind the head, but in half guard.

Rd 3
GSP gets the better of the standup throwing punches kicks and 3-4 strike combos. Kos keeps throwing the overhand right with everything he has and missing.
210 Kos grabs a leg.
146 Kos gets stuffed and reversed on a TD attempt.
GSP stays in full guard and lands 15-20+ solid elbows as well as lots of punches, then goes for a leg lock at the buzzer.

Im not trying to be a dick when I say this, but seriously, go back and rewatch that fight.

Thank you for posting that. That is the fight I remember seeing and was beginning to think I was crazy reading this thread. And to the guys saying "How come GSP couldn't put Kos away on the ground even though Kos trained mostly Standup?"

Kos is still a stud on the ground and didn't just forget all that. I wanna see anyone in the UFC at WW who can easily put Kos away on the ground.