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[thebwit]

Originally Posted by Dork8503

But Rampage didn't slip and fall, or hit his head, or anything like that.

Forrest beat Shogun and Rampage. He beat the 2 number 1 fighters at the time.

People are not going to give him respect and i see that now.

If he fights Chuck next and beats him, Forrest still will not earn or get respect from some people.

If he beats Lyoto, the same thing goes.

Right now Forrest is number 1 at 205. No has a better claim at number 1 then Forrest.

Will Forrest defend the title once, idk i would guess not, but the point is he still beat who he beat to get the title.

There is a difference between being the champ and being the best in the division. I am not disputing that Forrest is a great fighter. What I am saying is that I need to see more from him before I can say that he is the best in that division in the UFC. If Forrest beats Chuck I will be the first to say Forrest is the best in the division. My argument is that at 205 more than any other weight class the "anything can happen" happens.

Here is a completely different way to think about it. We all can agree that Fedor is the #1 HW in the world. And if not, just for arguments sake, agree with that. Fedor suddenly signs with the UFC. Nog is STILL the champ before he fights Fedor in the UFC. Now is Nog the best in the division just because he has a belt? What if the UFC fucks up and decides to give Fedor a warm up fight to introduce the casual fan to him? Fedor wins the warm up fight, Nog is still champ. Who's #1 in that division?

[Tick]

Originally Posted by Dork8503

But Rampage didn't slip and fall, or hit his head, or anything like that.

Forrest beat Shogun and Rampage. He beat the 2 number 1 fighters at the time.

People are not going to give him respect and i see that now.

If he fights Chuck next and beats him, Forrest still will not earn or get respect from some people.

If he beats Lyoto, the same thing goes.

Right now Forrest is number 1 at 205. No has a better claim at number 1 then Forrest.

Will Forrest defend the title once, idk i would guess not, but the point is he still beat who he beat to get the title.

Originally Posted by MasterShake

Its about time somone else realizes what someone holding a title means, it means your the best at that moment in time.

As Dork said, he beat 2 number 1's to get the title. How many people can say they did that? People do have to start giving him some respect. At the end of the rampage fight there was no doubt in my mind that Forrest won. He out worked rampage the whole fight. Alot of people seem not to respect Forrest because he was on TUF. The guy has to be working his ass off to and evolving in order to accomplish what he has accomplished in his last two fights. Give the guy credit people! REP to mastershake and Dork (quoted mastershake because I just figured out how to quote multiple peopel at once)

Originally Posted by thebwit

There is a difference between being the champ and being the best in the division. I am not disputing that Forrest is a great fighter. What I am saying is that I need to see more from him before I can say that he is the best in that division in the UFC. If Forrest beats Chuck I will be the first to say Forrest is the best in the division. My argument is that at 205 more than any other weight class the "anything can happen" happens.

Here is a completely different way to think about it. We all can agree that Fedor is the #1 HW in the world. And if not, just for arguments sake, agree with that. Fedor suddenly signs with the UFC. Nog is STILL the champ before he fights Fedor in the UFC. Now is Nog the best in the division just because he has a belt? What if the UFC fucks up and decides to give Fedor a warm up fight to introduce the casual fan to him? Fedor wins the warm up fight, Nog is still champ. Who's #1 in that division?

So what you are saying, right now, is there is no best in 205? So wouldn't that then make the champ the best since when all is said and done, the guy with the belt is at the top of the division? You are right, any fighter in the top 5 or possible 10 can beat any other guy... So that would leave the guy with the belt the best at this moment in time.

[hunterkiller]

Why is everyone saying Forrest gets no love. Forrest is one of the best at 205 right now. There's no denying his accomplishments.

I thought this thread was about the collective champs, not just one guy.

[MasterShake]

Originally Posted by thebwit

There is a difference between being the champ and being the best in the division. I am not disputing that Forrest is a great fighter. What I am saying is that I need to see more from him before I can say that he is the best in that division in the UFC. If Forrest beats Chuck I will be the first to say Forrest is the best in the division. My argument is that at 205 more than any other weight class the "anything can happen" happens.

Here is a completely different way to think about it. We all can agree that Fedor is the #1 HW in the world. And if not, just for arguments sake, agree with that. Fedor suddenly signs with the UFC. Nog is STILL the champ before he fights Fedor in the UFC. Now is Nog the best in the division just because he has a belt? What if the UFC fucks up and decides to give Fedor a warm up fight to introduce the casual fan to him? Fedor wins the warm up fight, Nog is still champ. Who's #1 in that division?

I hate to quote Ric Flaire but "TO BE THE MAN YOU HAVE TO BEAT THE MAN"

Generally in competion the man is the title holder, so that being said if Fedor came in and was still PRide champ and has not lost the title I am sure he would start on an even field as Nog, until they unified them they would both be the best. Now if this is not the case then yes Nog would be the best in that division and I am confident Fedor would respect that it is the kind of fighter he is.

[Paytheplayer]

The title thread is asking if every champ is the cream of the crop....it's about opinion. Do BJ, Anderson, and GSP look unbeatable right now? Yes. That's why there's no arguement from anybody that they definitely seem to be the cream of the crop. It's not that anybody is "disrespecting" Forrest. I for one am very impressed with his accomplishments. The point is, is that there are many people in the LHW division that I think could beat him on any given night.

[hunterkiller]

Originally Posted by Paytheplayer

The title thread is asking if every champ is the cream of the crop....it's about opinion. Do BJ, Anderson, and GSP look unbeatable right now? Yes. That's why there's no arguement from anybody that they definitely seem to be the cream of the crop. It's not that anybody is "disrespecting" Forrest. I for one am very impressed with his accomplishments. The point is, is that there are many people in the LHW division that I think could beat him on any given night.

Penn and Silva look unbeatable. GSP, not so much. He has yet to have a successful title defense. Reserve judgement until he passes the pressure test of defending a title he has held twice but not defended.

Forrest and Nog look very beatable. Will they lose, who knows. It's MMA and anything can happen.

For the record, I think Forrest would beat Chuck the same way Jardine did and he would be unprecedented as being the only guy to beat all 3 of the guys he has beaten. When it comes to Wanderlei, I think Wanderlei would come in like an animal and plow through Forrest the way Jardine did and the way he did Jardine, and the way Rampage should have fought.

[Paytheplayer]

Originally Posted by thecoylewis

Penn and Silva look unbeatable. GSP, not so much. He has yet to have a successful title defense. Reserve judgement until he passes the pressure test of defending a title he has held twice but not defended.

Forrest and Nog look very beatable. Will they lose, who knows. It's MMA and anything can happen.

For the record, I think Forrest would beat Chuck the same way Jardine did and he would be unprecedented as being the only guy to beat all 3 of the guys he has beaten. When it comes to Wanderlei, I think Wanderlei would come in like an animal and plow through Forrest the way Jardine did and the way he did Jardine, and the way Rampage should have fought.

I should have clarified. IMO, I think GSP looks unbeatable compared to the other contenders in the division. Yes anything can happen, but he is believed to be the best WW, and yes he is champ. Anderson has proved that he's the toughest champion to beat right now. BJ although just recently started showing his true form, if he fights the way he's been fighting then he would probably be the 2nd toughest champ to knock off. (Could also make an arguement for toughest, if it wasn't for his tougher competition than Silva).

I dont want to comment on Nog yet, only because on paper he's probably the best HW in the UFC division right now IMO.

[LookitsLance]

Originally Posted by Paytheplayer

The title thread is asking if every champ is the cream of the crop....it's about opinion. Do BJ, Anderson, and GSP look unbeatable right now? Yes. That's why there's no arguement from anybody that they definitely seem to be the cream of the crop. It's not that anybody is "disrespecting" Forrest. I for one am very impressed with his accomplishments. The point is, is that there are many people in the LHW division that I think could beat him on any given night.

Like say...Rampage or Shogun?

[Paytheplayer]

Originally Posted by LookitsLance

Like say...Rampage or Shogun?

Ok so say he fights Chuck next and loses. Does that mean he's still number 1 on earth because he beat Rampage and Shogun before? I know its 2 in a row, but thats just it. Like I said, Im not arguing the fact that he should be rated number 1 because he beat the best. If you read the title, its about is he the cream of the crop in that division. Bottom line is that division is so stacked with competition that anybody can beat anybody on any given night. Forrest just happens to be the latest man to do so, and its not that im pointing Forrest out, its the whole division. You can't really say that one man is the cream of the crop, because itll be somebody else sooner than later. Whether its Machida, Chuck, Rampage, Forrest, Shogun, Wandy, the list goes on.

[thumper]

I think a lot of the problem with giving forrest credit is not really because people dislike him, it's because they really liked Rampage being the champ, which I did too.

The only problem I have with that fight is that to beat the champ you're suppose to have to do it overwhelmingly. Forrest didn't. BUT he did win.

I think the competition in the division is just too great to see anyone stay on top long.