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[kowarrior]

Originally Posted by dagreat1

That is VERY possible. You canlt think that Rich is focused on his return to the octagon right now. He is focused on contemplating his future as a fighter, you have to realize the UFC screwed this man, he is still only making $35,000 per fight (GSP was the highest paid fighter on the card where Franklin fought the Crow and GSP was oaid $70,000) and UFC and Xyence endoursements are not like Michael Jordan's Nike, Gatorade and Coke commercials, the UFC and supporters commercials pay VERY little ao Frankin is not set for life like Chuck is as Chuck is making $250,000 per fight PLUS a percentage of the PPV sales so he makes around $1 million per fight.

Rich must now comeback knowing he is not set for life and must continue to fight and HE MUST be successfull again, that is a ton of pressure on him and after being destroyed in such a manor and not even knowing how to escape a Thai clinch is huge and must weigh heavily on his mind.

I think his world is completely upside down right now, I hope he bounces back as I have respect for him as a fighter (I don't like him or his cockieness and was glad he lost) as this is his career and life that are on the line. I can only imagine how he feels right now after being a victim of Dana White's marketing and tasting defeat in such a manor.

if I am a UFC fighter (especially a bigger name like Babalu, Tito, GSP, etc.) I would be placing calls regarding training with Chute Box and Brazilian Top Team. Their methods are the best in the world.

Franklin was a teacher. He can make a very nice living teaching. He doesn't need the UFC. There's nothing wrong with people working normal jobs, so Franklin shouldn't feel any pressure at all. It's not worth taking a beating like that for only $35,000 and a few bucks on top of that with endorsements.

[meth1592]

nate, your post is very well said and pretty much sums everything up. enough said. that is all.

[duran]

Kewl: Who DO you think is a good fighter? Is there anyone fighting in the UFC now that you think is good/tough?

[Kewl144]

Originally Posted by duran

Kewl: Who DO you think is a good fighter? Is there anyone fighting in the UFC now that you think is good/tough?

I think Franklin is good but not great. There's a lot of good fighters. But the UFC is flooded with TUFers (not that there's anything wrong with that). They need to continue to go outside the U.S, and U.K to bring in better fighters instead of trying to get them via a reality tv show. Starting paying fighters what they're worth and bringing in some real talent. Of course maybe all the TUFers will mature as fighters and in a few years they'll be on top of the UFC...who knows, maybe that's what Dana is counting on?

[Hypergit]

Franklin fears nobody?

Na, I'm pretty sure he fears A. Silva.

[MMA God]

I'm gettin sick and tired of everyone sayin that Franklin is finished because of one loss. He just had the wrong strategy/gameplan against a superior striker. Everyone said the exact same thing when Ortiz was beaten by Couture and Liddell and he has come back and won his last 4 fights in a row and has a rematch with Liddell on Dec 30. Once Franklin comes back and destroys his next opponent everyone will be like i didn't mean it, i knew he wasn't done. Everyone will be eating crow after Franklin's next fight. Believe it

[Kewl144]

Originally Posted by MMA God

I'm gettin sick and tired of everyone sayin that Franklin is finished because of one loss. He just had the wrong strategy/gameplan against a superior striker. Everyone said the exact same thing when Ortiz was beaten by Couture and Liddell and he has come back and won his last 4 fights in a row and has a rematch with Liddell on Dec 30. Once Franklin comes back and destroys his next opponent everyone will be like i didn't mean it, i knew he wasn't done. Everyone will be eating crow after Franklin's next fight. Believe it

not so much finished as exposed. Franklin was/is known as a striker because he likes to stand and punch. Silva is known as a striker because of his background in muay thai...see the difference?

[Nate_Deezy]

Originally Posted by Kewl144

Shamrock...legendary? Are you new to MMA? A tuf bandwagon fan? Shamrock has been losing for awhile. The guy looked like a joke in with Franklin. His time has long been over. Even his dreaded leg lock wasnt doing anything. He's never been the world's most dangerous man...well other than when a WWF writer, wrote the win for him. You seriously want to list Shamrock as one of Rich's greatest moments? Shammy was used to get Franklin over with the fans before Franklin punked down to a smaller weight class to try and bully his opponents.

No...I am not new to MMA. I have been watching since UFC 1 as a matter of fact. Not to mention Pride, WFA, KOTC, and other promotions. I also train in mma. But to say Ken Shamrock is not a legend in MMA is purely ridiculous and baseless. In fact, I am beginning to question your MMA longevity considering you have only based this statement on Shamrock's recent fights and an obvious lack of respect for a man who has helped make MMA what it is today.

Also, your point about cutting weight to "bully" fighters is void because 99% of fighters have to cut weight prior to a fight. It is said that Tito Ortiz walks around at about 250 before fights. In the Wanderlei Silva/ Cro Cop fight, people mention that Silva put on weight for the fight, which was a bad move. That's false. He just didn't have to cut weight in an open weight tournament, so he just fought at his natural weight. Fighting weight and natural weight are always 2 different things.

Originally Posted by Kewl144

Not to be taken lightly by anyone in the UFC anyway. I noticed that you didnt even bother mentioning a couple in between fights like Franklins wins over Curtis Stout (11wins, 10 losses), Ralph Dilon (1 loss), Leo Sylvest (7 wins, 19 losses) and the list of cans continue. Franklin has always been a good fighter but I never viewed his game as being anything great. He's suppose to be some kind of an amazing striker but his punches are sloppy and by his one admission, he isnt a very technical fighter. He's just a good fighter, but nothing great (that I could ever see). I never really understood the hype around him. And again, nothing against him as a person but I never bought into the marketing hype surrounding the fighter.

I don't buy in to marketing. What I saw was a guy who picked apart every opponent who was put in front of him. Don't talk to me about how easy his competition was because at this level of MMA, the competition is going to be extremely tough. Everyone knows their stuff and knows it very well, and anytime a fighter goes into that cage against ANYONE, a submission or knockout is possible from either side no matter how outclassed someone might appear to be. That said, no one even came close to Franklin. He absolutely dominated everyone who was put before him and made his opponents look like someone who was having their first fight against a very seasoned vet.

I didn't mention those fights because I just mentioned his UFC run. I didn't want to bring up any of the in between fights because that would have been off my point, not because I lacked confidence in his opposition. See my statement above. Anyone can be beaten at any time. Didn't you forget to mention that Anderson Silva was submitted by a guy named Daiju Takase whose record is 7-11-1? Or how about Jose Barreto whose record consists of a loss to Anderson Silva and nothing else? (0-1-0) How about Claudionor Fontinelle (7-9-1), Israel Albuquerque (0-3-0), Alexander Otsuka (3-12-0), Waldir dos Anjos (2-8-0), and the same Jorge Rivera (13-5-0) and Curtis Stout (11-10-0) you criticized when the subject was on Rich Franklin? Who has Anderson Silva beaten of notable mention before Franklin? Carlos Newton? Although he's highly regarded in the MMA community, that doesn't change the fact that Newton sports a record of 13-10-0 which isn't overly impressive.

I'm not trying to bash Anderson Silva. He is definitely the cream of the crop in the middleweight division right now. I'm just saying everyone fights cans at some point in their career. EVERYONE. Franklin is no different. Just try and show some respect to a fighter who dedicates his entire life to training hard, fighting hard, and most of all putting on a great show for us, the fans. That's what matters man. Bias aside....love MMA.

[Kewl144]

Originally Posted by Nate_Deezy

No...I am not new to MMA. I have been watching since UFC 1 as a matter of fact. Not to mention Pride, WFA, KOTC, and other promotions. I also train in mma. But to say Ken Shamrock is not a legend in MMA is purely ridiculous and baseless. In fact, I am beginning to question your MMA longevity considering you have only based this statement on Shamrock's recent fights and an obvious lack of respect for a man who has helped make MMA what it is today.

Yep, Shamrock was washed up when he fought Franklin. He was only brought in to fight Franklin to put him over and to attact a lot of the new fans and pro-wrestling fans. He has a well known name but when he fought Franklin he should have already been retired.

I don't buy in to marketing. What I saw was a guy who picked apart every opponent who was put in front of him. Don't talk to me about how easy his competition was because at this level of MMA, the competition is going to be extremely tough. Everyone knows their stuff and knows it very well, and anytime a fighter goes into that cage against ANYONE, a submission or knockout is possible from either side no matter how outclassed someone might appear to be. That said, no one even came close to Franklin. He absolutely dominated everyone who was put before him and made his opponents look like someone who was having their first fight against a very seasoned vet.

Yep. And for the most part he was fed cans and fighters who werent ready. He beat up some kids, a couple cans, and 1 or 2 "good"(not great) fighters. He made those fights look like what Silva made their fights look like.

I didn't mention thos fights because I just mentioned his UFC run. I didn't want to bring up any of the in between fights because that would have been off my point, not because I lacked confidence in his opposition. See my statement above. Anyone can be beaten at any time. Didn't you forget to mention that Anderson Silva was submitted by a guy named Daiju Takase whose record is 7-11-1? Or how about Jose Barreto whose record consists of a loss to Anderson Silva and nothing else? (0-1-0) Claudionor Fontinelle (7-9-1), Israel Albuquerque (0-3-0), Alexander Otsuka (3-12-0), Waldir dos Anjos (2-8-0), and the same Jorge Rivera (13-5-0) and Curtis Stout (11-10-0) you criticized when the subject was on Rich Franklin? Who has Anderson Silva beaten of notable mention before Franklin? Carlos Newton? Although he's highly regarded in the MMA community, that doesn't change the fact that Newton sports a record of 13-10-0 which isn't overly impressive.

I agree. A lot of the names on Silva's hitlist are immediately known by most. But again, the difference between Franklin and Silva is that Franklin is known as a striker because he likes to stand up and fight but Silva is known as a striker because of his muay thai. Franklin found out what that means and I think a lot of fans are going to slowly realize what it means also.

I'm not trying to bash Anderson Silva. He is definitely the cream of the crop in the middleweight division right now. I'm just saying everyone fights cans at some point in their career. EVERYONE. Just try and show some respect to a fighter who dedicates his entire life to training hard, fighting hard, and most of all putting on a great show for us, the fans. That's what matters man. Bias aside....love MMA.

Sure he trained hard, and he might have brought his fight game into new areas. But at the end of the day, Franklin was still just a good fighter. Can anyone explain to me why people are so in awe of him? What is it about him? They did an inside his training thing awhile ago and all they focused on is what he ate and his conditioning. Is that why people are in awe of him? Is that why Dana kept hyping him over and over? His technique is sloppy, his punches arent crisp, he has the same average ground game that every UFC fighter seems to have now so that doesnt set him apart. The only thing that set him apart in the past is that he comes in heavy. He comes in looking much bigger than his opponents and he uses that to win his fights. He got use to bullying around his opponents. And it was only a matter of time before he fought someone he couldnt push around and who wasnt afraid of him. Hell Silva didnt even watch Franklin's fight tapes (he let his coaches watch them). So again, why were/are so many people in awe of Franklin? What really sets him apart from the other fighters other than coming into a middleweight fight weighing 205 or 210? Was it simply because he's American?

[Nate_Deezy]

Originally Posted by Kewl144

Sure he trained hard, and he might have brought his fight game into new areas. But at the end of the day, Franklin was still just a good fighter. Can anyone explain to me why people are so in awe of him? What is it about him? They did an inside his training thing awhile ago and all they focused on is what he ate and his conditioning. Is that why people are in awe of him? Is that why Dana kept hyping him over and over? His technique is sloppy, his punches arent crisp, he has the same average ground game that every UFC fighter seems to have now so that doesnt set him apart. The only thing that set him apart in the past is that he comes in heavy. He comes in looking much bigger than his opponents and he uses that to win his fights. He got use to bullying around his opponents. And it was only a matter of time before he fought someone he couldnt push around and who wasnt afraid of him. Hell Silva didnt even watch Franklin's fight tapes (he let his coaches watch them). So again, why were/are so many people in awe of Franklin? What really sets him apart from the other fighters other than coming into a middleweight fight weighing 205 or 210? Was it simply because he's American?

OK...I arleady dissected this statement. All fighters have to cut weight. Do you think there are just randomly world class fighters walking around at 155, 170, 185, and 205 by coincidence? No....they have to work very hard to make weight and once they do, it's official. He probably goes home and eats....and drinks water so he's not dehydrated during fights because if he was, people like YOU would criticize him for showing up and not performing. I have never seen him bully an opponent because that would mean he threw them around or grappled with them based on his pure strength because we all know striking has nothing to do with strengh, rather it comes from technique. How can you sit here and talk badly about a guy who's only ever had one fight go to decision and only lost 2 of his 24 fights? What more can you ask for from a fighter? The sad thing is you're probably one of the people who bitches about guys like Rashad Evans NOT finishing fights. WHAT DO YOU PEOPLE WANT? MMA has to be the most frustrating sport out there because no matter what you do, no matter how impressive you are, no matter how exciting your fights are, you go home beaten and bloody, get on the internet and there are people bitching about your performance. I feel sorry for these guys having to perform for ungreatful bastards like you.