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[dagreat1]

Originally Posted by Nate_Deezy

Also, your point about cutting weight to "bully" fighters is void because 99% of fighters have to cut weight prior to a fight. It is said that Tito Ortiz walks around at about 250 before fights. In the Wanderlei Silva/ Cro Cop fight, people mention that Silva put on weight for the fight, which was a bad move. That's false. He just didn't have to cut weight in an open weight tournament, so he just fought at his natural weight. Fighting weight and natural weight are always 2 different things.

Tito actually walks around at 230lbs, same as Chuck. Franklin walks around at 215, Hughes and GSP at 190lbs.

The point that was made was not about who cuts the most weight, it was more about the fact that Franklin WAS fighting the vast majority of his career at 205lbs. Once he became a highly marketable figure, he felt it was a WISE career move to drop down to 185 where there was very little cometition unlike the LHW division where he would have to fight Tito, Babalu or Chuck and I am 99% sure he would get owned in all 3 of those fights.

[Kewl144]

Originally Posted by Nate_Deezy

OK...I arleady dissected this statement. All fighters have to cut weight. Do you think there are just randomly world class fighters walking around at 155, 170, 185, and 205 by coincidence? No....they have to work very hard to make weight and once they do, it's official.

Of course it's a fact of the game. But Rich did/does it well. When fight day arrives, he wouldnt make weight for a lightheavy weight.

He probably goes home and eats....and drinks water so he's not dehydrated during fights because if he was, people like YOU would criticize him for showing up and not performing. I have never seen him bully an opponent because that would mean he threw them around or grappled with them based on his pure strength because we all know striking has nothing to do with strengh, rather it comes from technique.

This is exactly what happened with Dewees. He threw him around and he still couldnt knock him out.

How can you sit here and talk badly about a guy who's only ever had one fight go to decision and only lost 2 of his 24 fights? What more can you ask for from a fighter?

Badmouth him? Because I say he was/is a good fight but not a great fighter? That's just the reality of Rich Franklin.

The sad thing is you're probably one of the people who bitches about guys like Rashad Evans NOT finishing fights. WHAT DO YOU PEOPLE WANT? MMA has to be the most frustrating sport out there because no matter what you do, no matter how impressive you are, no matter how exciting your fights are, you go home beaten and bloody, get on the internet and there are people bitching about your performance. I feel sorry for these guys having to perform for ungreatful bastards like you.

Rich has never been impressive. And all I see in your above post is another person dodging the simply question; why are his fans in such awe of Franklin? His ground game is average, his technique is sloppy, his punches are crisp, his leg kicks look weak...etc. Franklin is known as a striker but nothing about his actual abilities would tell you this. He's only known as a striker because he likes to stand and strike whereas Silva is known as a striker because of his muay thai. Again, why are people in such awe of a fighter who beat some cans, some kids, and 2 good (not great fighters)? The reason people like you cant accept my opinions is because Rich was built up so much in your mind. Whether you want to accept it or not, you bought into the marketing. You bought into Dana singing Rich's praises. You brought into the annoucers praising Rich over and over. But why? What truly, as a fighter, seperates Rich from everyone else? Ask yourself that last question and you'll be able to see Franklin for exactly what he is; a good, but not great, fighter (and no, not everyone else in the UFC but in the sport of MMA as a whole). He hasnt done anything to prove himself to be a great fighter yet.

[Nate_Deezy]

Originally Posted by dagreat1

Tito actually walks around at 230lbs, same as Chuck. Franklin walks around at 215, Hughes and GSP at 190lbs.

The point that was made was not about who cuts the most weight, it was more about the fact that Franklin WAS fighting the vast majority of his career at 205lbs. Once he became a highly marketable figure, he felt it was a WISE career move to drop down to 185 where there was very little cometition unlike the LHW division where he would have to fight Tito, Babalu or Chuck and I am 99% sure he would get owned in all 3 of those fights.

Come on man...how can people constantly disrespect the Middleweight division? Evan Tanner was the man when Rich walked in, unknown, and embarassed him. David Louiseau is a feared striker, Robbie Lawler was still around at the time and was thought to be THE fighter at 185, Jorge Rivera is still a good name to throw in the mix, although not top tier by any means....the Middleweight division is a pretty good division. If he felt he fit better at that weight, then it was just a good tactical decision. Sean Sherk used to fight at 170, but all I hear about him is praise for beating Kenny Florian at 155 in a not-so-dominant fashion for the Lightweight title. B.J. Penn never was able to win the 155 pound title, so he moved weight classes. (granted 155 was dropped in the UFC for a while...he could have fought elsewhere) Is Brandon Vera a Heavyweight or Light Heavyweight this week? Yet people still can't stop worshipping him. Fighting is all about finding the right weight for you. That's just an aspect of the game, not being a chicken shit.

[Nate_Deezy]

Originally Posted by Kewl144

Rich has never been impressive. And all I see in your above post is another person dodging the simply question; why are his fans in such awe of Franklin? His ground game is average, his technique is sloppy, his punches are crisp, his leg kicks look weak...etc. Franklin is known as a striker but nothing about his actual abilities would tell you this. He's only known as a striker because he likes to stand and strike whereas Silva is known as a striker because of his muay thai. Again, why are people in such awe of a fighter who beat some cans, some kids, and 2 good (not great fighters)? The reason people like you cant accept my opinions is because Rich was built up so much in your mind. Whether you want to accept it or not, you bought into the marketing. You bought into Dana singing Rich's praises. You brought into the annoucers praising Rich over and over. But why? What truly, as a fighter, seperates Rich from everyone else? Ask yourself that last question and you'll be able to see Franklin for exactly what he is; a good, but not great, fighter (and no, not everyone else in the UFC but in the sport of MMA as a whole). He hasnt done anything to prove himself to be a great fighter yet.

How about the fact that he is an examplary human being. He is humble inside and out of the octagon, always soft spoken, extremely intelligent and knowledgeable of the sport. His ability to change gameplans on the spot is uncanny (though not in the Silva fight) and his mental composure is what truly sets him apart from other fighters. He is very well rounded with a ton of wins by both knockout and submission, but his dominance doesn't come from his skill. It comes from a combination of his skill and his extremely well known intellectual presence in a fight. When you have a guy who knows how to fight, AND he's smart enough to change gameplans when things aren't going his way....that's a dangerous guy.

As for Dana White...I can't stand the guy. So stop telling me what I'M doing. I'm pretty sure you're no psychologist, and you certainly don't know me so how can you base that statement? Most of all I think Rich Franklin is a great fighter because no matter how much people bitch about him, he goes out there every time and lays it all on the line for us, the fans. Rich Franklin is an extremely exciting fighter and I will continue to believe so until he starts fighting boring fights. I don't see that happening any time soon however.

[Kewl144]

Originally Posted by Nate_Deezy

How about the fact that he is an examplary human being. He is humble inside and out of the octagon, always soft spoken, extremely intelligent

all of which has nothing to do with him as a fighter. Try to stay on track. You're still caught up in praising the person, which is fine, but you're ignoring reality when it comes to his actual fighting skills.

and knowledgeable of the sport. His ability to change gameplans on the spot is uncanny (though not in the Silva fight)

Such as when? When he fought Jorge and he figured out that he couldnt knock him out? Where are all these "uncanny" examples that set him apart from other fighters who switch to a ground game when the stand up isnt working.

and his mental composure is what truly sets him apart from other fighters.

How does it? Stop listing things you think and start listing examples.

He is very well rounded with a ton of wins by both knockout and submission, but his dominance doesn't come from his skill. It comes from a combination of his skill and his extremely well known intellectual presence in a fight. When you have a guy who knows how to fight, AND he's smart enough to change gameplans when things aren't going his way....that's a dangerous guy.

No thats the average MMA fighter these days. Fighters change their tactics all the time in a fight if something isnt working. He's well rounded? Another catch phrase thats always tossed around. Yea sure he's well rounded but that only means he doesnt have a dominate discipline to fall back on. He has average skills in every aspect of MMA.

As for Dana White...I can't stand the guy. So stop telling me what I'M doing. I'm pretty sure you're no psychologist, and you certainly don't know me so how can you base that statement? Most of all I think Rich Franklin is a great fighter because no matter how much people bitch about him, he goes out there every time and lays it all on the line for us, the fans. Rich Franklin is an extremely exciting fighter and I will continue to believe so until he starts fighting boring fights. I don't see that happening any time soon however.

Every fighter goes out and fights, so that doesnt seperate him from anyone else. I think its time to face facts. I know you're a fan of his (nothing wrong with that) but you're more occupied with Rich as a person than a fighter. All you've done in the preceeding paragaph is repeat the exact same thing Dana White has been saying about Rich and the same thing the annoucers have been saying about Rich. Hell, i'll try to track down a transcript of the free preview show with Dana and Joe Rogan talking and you'll see for yourself that you've just repeated the same things they've said. But the reality is, nothing truly seperates him from the other fighters, other than his marketability as a clean cut, good looking (Randy even mentions this during the PPV), American fighter.

[dagreat1]

Originally Posted by Nate_Deezy

Come on man...how can people constantly disrespect the Middleweight division? Evan Tanner was the man when Rich walked in, unknown, and embarassed him. David Louiseau is a feared striker, Robbie Lawler was still around at the time and was thought to be THE fighter at 185, Jorge Rivera is still a good name to throw in the mix, although not top tier by any means....the Middleweight division is a pretty good division. If he felt he fit better at that weight, then it was just a good tactical decision. Sean Sherk used to fight at 170, but all I hear about him is praise for beating Kenny Florian at 155 in a not-so-dominant fashion for the Lightweight title. B.J. Penn never was able to win the 155 pound title, so he moved weight classes. (granted 155 was dropped in the UFC for a while...he could have fought elsewhere) Is Brandon Vera a Heavyweight or Light Heavyweight this week? Yet people still can't stop worshipping him. Fighting is all about finding the right weight for you. That's just an aspect of the game, not being a chicken shit.

The Vera worshipping is valid though there is hype surroundig him for sure, hopefully the people hyping him have actually seen some of his fights other than his UFC fights. He is a very well rounded fighter withgreat skills in each discipline, I have seen videos of wrestling matched of his and he suplexes a guy with absolute ease and throws him into a guillotine chock and lifts him about a foot in the air and then while the guy is suspended in the air he suplexes him again.

His strength is very deceiving, his wrestling technique is great, he has a great ground game and a great standup game so he should be able to develop into a world class fighter in all aspects of MMA.

He is one of those guys that have a lot of drive and want to be champion. Much like Diego and Rashad, they have all stated that they are goignt o be champions and those are the 3 young standout fighters in the UFC (other than St. Pierre but he has been world class for a while now) that I beleive will in fact become champions at some point.

I think for Sherk it was a similar thing to Franklin, if you can make weight (cut or gain) a different weight class that is less competitive it is a great career move and that is what it is all about, they try their best to put on a great show for the fans and rightfully so they are rewarded with big paychecks (the top guys at least) and for Skerk, he is a short guy at only like 5'-6" or so and WW is like LHW in the UFC as you have Hughes and GSP and Sherk lost to both and pretty easily so he could either stay at 170 and be #3 his entire career or he could drop to LW and become champion and be in the spotlight and earn a very good living. It was a very wise choice for him and I like him at this weight and I don't see anyone taking the belt from him for a long time (Melvin has potential but it will take years to develop, if they were to fight now, Sherk would break him mentally in the very first round and dominate him for 25 minutes).