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[Qball1974]

So if GSP isn't fighting untill 2009 i'm guessing B.J is gonna wait for him..........so no LW belt defence for about a year??????

[Madd Wilk]

Originally Posted by thebwit

I don't agree with this at all. Why should the champ of the LW division have to fight a top WW guy to get a shot? All that will happen is that someone would end up NOT getting the shot at the WW belt from the loss.

Think about it man. What position does that put every single other WW fighter in? They have weight classes for a reason. Now everyone who has been working their way towards a title shot, fighting guys in their own division, have to wait because BJ is being given a unique opportunity to just step right in and challeng the camp. Anderson Silva didnt do that at LHW.

Not to mention what all the LW's are thinking. Now they in turn have to wait for a title shot while their division champ goes and fights in another division.

I think BJ is getting a shot simply because he's BJ. I still think he should have to fight one or two top 5 guys to get a shot. Its not like the WW division is lacking in competition. It was different when Couture came back at HW to fight for the title. HW was thin at the time.

And people are going to NOT get shots at the title from losses regardless. He should have to prove himself at 170. What happens if/when he gets the shot at the WW title, gets all busted up and is medically suspended for a few months? No LW title shots then either. It just seems like it could screw up too many things for too many people in two different weight classes.

[jukon]

I hope they book the Olympic stadium for NYE in Montreal. GSP stands a good chance to lose though, so that could go crazy.

[thebwit]

Originally Posted by Madd Wilk

Think about it man. What position does that put every single other WW fighter in? They have weight classes for a reason. Now everyone who has been working their way towards a title shot, fighting guys in their own division, have to wait because BJ is being given a unique opportunity to just step right in and challeng the camp. Anderson Silva didnt do that at LHW.

Not to mention what all the LW's are thinking. Now they in turn have to wait for a title shot while their division champ goes and fights in another division.

I think BJ is getting a shot simply because he's BJ. I still think he should have to fight one or two top 5 guys to get a shot. Its not like the WW division is lacking in competition. It was different when Couture came back at HW to fight for the title. HW was thin at the time.

And people are going to NOT get shots at the title from losses regardless. He should have to prove himself at 170. What happens if/when he gets the shot at the WW title, gets all busted up and is medically suspended for a few months? No LW title shots then either. It just seems like it could screw up too many things for too many people in two different weight classes.

Ok I see your point, but now to debate it

Anderson Silva didn't get a title shot because he didn't ask for it. In addition he probably didn't want it just yet as he thinks he needs fights at 205. And finally there is no "rematch" factor between Anderson and Forrest (or at the time Anderson and Rampage).

Now back to the BJ should fight two top 5 guys. For arguments sake, lets just say they are Alves, Fitch, Diego, Serra, Hughes. Now you say he needs 1-2 wins and lets go with the worst case scenario here. He fights 2 of those guys and wins which will knock 2 of the top 5 guys out of a title shot. And in that time frame, guys in the LW division are forced to wait on the sidelines for a shot at BJ. Which with our 2 fight example means that at the earliest Penn would defend his LW title in 12 months (2 fights to get shot at GSP, plus fight with GSP = 9 months, plus 3 months to train for LW fight).

OR

We can have Penn vs GSP fight in December and then worst case for the titles, Penn wins and alternates defenses, but I bet Dana would make him give up 1 after a bit.

The top contender right now in the WW division is the winner of Alves/Diego. That is going to be a brawl and neither will be ready for 6 months anyways so why not have Penn/GSP in December?

And the argument about either one getting busted up and being on medical suspension doesn't hold water as regardless of who either of them face next if they were to get injured and still win, their respective division is on hold.

[WadoKai]

Originally Posted by thebwit

I don't agree with this at all. Why should the champ of the LW division have to fight a top WW guy to get a shot? All that will happen is that someone would end up NOT getting the shot at the WW belt from the loss.

Uh, that's how #1 contenders are determined... Someone wins, someone loses, then someone gets a title shot.

[Madd Wilk]

Originally Posted by thebwit

Ok I see your point, but now to debate it

Anderson Silva didn't get a title shot because he didn't ask for it. In addition he probably didn't want it just yet as he thinks he needs fights at 205. And finally there is no "rematch" factor between Anderson and Forrest (or at the time Anderson and Rampage).

Now back to the BJ should fight two top 5 guys. For arguments sake, lets just say they are Alves, Fitch, Diego, Serra, Hughes. Now you say he needs 1-2 wins and lets go with the worst case scenario here. He fights 2 of those guys and wins which will knock 2 of the top 5 guys out of a title shot. And in that time frame, guys in the LW division are forced to wait on the sidelines for a shot at BJ. Which with our 2 fight example means that at the earliest Penn would defend his LW title in 12 months (2 fights to get shot at GSP, plus fight with GSP = 9 months, plus 3 months to train for LW fight).

OR

We can have Penn vs GSP fight in December and then worst case for the titles, Penn wins and alternates defenses, but I bet Dana would make him give up 1 after a bit.

The top contender right now in the WW division is the winner of Alves/Diego. That is going to be a brawl and neither will be ready for 6 months anyways so why not have Penn/GSP in December?

And the argument about either one getting busted up and being on medical suspension doesn't hold water as regardless of who either of them face next if they were to get injured and still win, their respective division is on hold.

Well you make some good points. However, BJ could still fight his way up the WW ladder and make a LW title defense while doing so. He wouldn't have to commit to either LW or WW entirely like your proposed scenario above. He could fight a WW in Nov/Dec, defend his LW title 3 months later, then fight another WW challenger 3-4 months after that. Now if he loses in the WW class, there's no repurcussion to his LW standing. If he loses the LW title, then maybe we see him make a permanent transistion to WW (even though I dont forsee him losing at LW, ever).

Either that or he gives up his LW title to compete in WW solely. And as you mentioned, Dana probably will make him do that if he does in fact get a shot at GSP. BJ likes to take time off, I just dont see a guy like BJ fighting 4-5 times per year.

The timelines as they are look pretty good. GSP has fought four times in 12 months and wants a break. That leaves enough time for Diego/Thiago to fight and have the winner vs GSP shortly thereafter. In LW, you got Florian ready for a title shot. The winner of Sherk/Griffin shortly thereafter.


There's so many ways this scenario could work out. If I was a fighter in the UFC I wouldnt be very happy about this, especially if I was a LW or WW. Being a fan, I would love to see the fight. I may not agree with how its going to come about but hey, in the end I want to see it just as bad as anyone else.

[POINDEXTER]

My money is on this fight happening in December. It's too big not to, and they've already set the stage.

[kc56]

Originally Posted by thebwit

I don't agree with this at all. Why should the champ of the LW division have to fight a top WW guy to get a shot? All that will happen is that someone would end up NOT getting the shot at the WW belt from the loss.

On a strictly technical nature, I disagree. What does beating people at LW have to do with fighting for the WW title?

Now on to the money side. If the UFC thinks it will make financial sense, they will do it anyways, but they have to weigh what that fight will make them, versus what they potentially stand to lose for either fighter in the future after one of them lose.

[Severn]

Originally Posted by kc56

On a strictly technical nature, I disagree. What does beating people at LW have to do with fighting for the WW title?

Now on to the money side. If the UFC thinks it will make financial sense, they will do it anyways, but they have to weigh what that fight will make them, versus what they potentially stand to lose for either fighter in the future after one of them lose.

It's a grudge match. They've fought before and Penn was a former WW champ. I could see the argument if they've never fought before and Penn never fought as a WW. Odds are Penn would have fought him way back when if he didn't bolt out of the UFC the first time.

[kc56]

Originally Posted by Severn

It's a grudge match. They've fought before and Penn was a former WW champ. I could see the argument if they've never fought before and Penn never fought as a WW. Odds are Penn would have fought him way back when if he didn't bolt out of the UFC the first time.

Right, but he wasn't talking about Penn and GSP. It was in general.

I don't agree with this at all. Why should the champ of the LW division have to fight a top WW guy to get a shot? All that will happen is that someone would end up NOT getting the shot at the WW belt from the loss.

Also, Penn has only fought in the UFC at WW 3 times. He came right into a title fight, and is 1-2 overall. In fact, 2 fights were for the title, and one was for the #1 contender spot, so it is not like he has already "paid his dues in that division" I think the most accurate argument would be that it would follow the trend. That the only way Penn fights at WW is if it is for the title or against GSP.