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[mcptfc2007]

u have got 2 understand that although ufc is about mma and who the best fighters are, at the end of the day it is still a business and the owners want 2 make a profit, yeah fair enough brock prob does not deserve this fight, but u could argue not many other people desevre this fight, the only other people are nog and mir and they have already agreed 2 do the ultimate fighter 8 and fight at the end, then the winner will face randy or brock,

i for 1 really want 2 see this fight and it interests me more than seeing randy fighting someone like mir or maybe even werdum, im pumped for this and cant wait bring on ufc 91

btw the ufc have some great ppv coming up

[Dork8503]

Originally Posted by dagreat1

Something's wrong here. I thought the UFC was the promotion where fighters EARNED title shots and #1 contender shots?

Machida still hasn't received a title shot, Chuck vs Rashad for the #1 contender (not officially announced but cmon, it is the #1 contender fight) but Rashad did nothing to earn that fight.

Earned title shots, thats very funny seeing who the champion is. A guy who was coming off a knock out loss to chuck at lhw, to retire then come back an get a title shot.

So getting angry with Brock for getting a title shot is uncalled for.

I will say i disagree but its money an it isn't total crap.

As for Lyoto a case an be made for him not to get a title shot an one for him to get a title shot.

He really hasn't beaten any solid title contenders in the UFC. Soko never fought in the UFC so he really wasn't a contender, neither was Tito, or Hogar.

Sure this title shot is about money, but what happens if Lesnar beats Randy, then beats Nog/Mir, specially if he beats Nog. Most people would forget about him getting a title shot so soon.

I don't see him beating Nog, but i do see him beating Randy.

Only person they are really fucking is Werdum, but then again he is 2-1 in the UFC so Brock being 1-1 isn't that bad.

What it really boils down to is right now at HW there are not really any clear cut contenders. Well Werdum is the closest you get.

But you have other guys lurking in the shadows like Cawin, Cain, Kongo, an so on.

[travtera]

First off, great post. Anybody that speaks passionately and from the heart about this great sport is alright in my books. Just thought I'd hit on a few of your points

I never remembered the Lesnar/Mir fight being a #1 contender nor did it ever even get mentioned as having "title implications". The only reason Mir was lined up for the shot after is because really there was nobody else, he was a former champ and he won in fantastic style in a high profile match.

As far as the upcoming Brock/Couture match, I too call bull shit on it being a "title" match. And agree that Brock is far from deserving a shot at the title just yet. Am I annoyed by this fact? A little. About as much as I was when they announced GSP/Hughes III was for the "interim" WW title when the champ was only on the shelf for a couple more months. I called bull shit on that one too but I still watched the pay-per-view and enjoyed it immensely. The same can be said for Couture/Lesnar. I'm amped for this fight.

Lets face it, the heavyweight title situation has been fucked up since Randy left. And in a right/just/fair world we would see either Option A: Randy should fight Nog right off the bat for the hyperbolized "Undisputed" Heavyweight Championship match or Option B: Randy should be considered stripped of the title and Nog should be recognized as the champ. Randy's pursues some other fights (like the Lesnar one) and works his way back up.

Unfortunately we don't live in a right/just/fair world. The wheels (ala TUF 8) are already in motion for Nog/Mir and there is just too much money sitting on the table not to put Couture/Lesnar together. The fact that it has a bull shit "championship" title to the fight is just the cherry on top and an extra tool to sell and hype the fight much like Hughes/GSP III.

I honestly believe that this is less the UFC hand picking/setting up future matches and more them just trying to deal with the hand they've been dealt and I think they're doing alright. I think you have to ask yourself, "If I was the UFC would I put this fight together?". I think you'd be crazy to say "no". I'll accept this as a "title" fight but only because I'm intrigued at the prospect of a 5 round war between them same as Hughes/GSP III.

And I think you're pretty quick to right off "The Natural". He's a crafty veteran and Lesnar is still VERY green! As good as Lesnar looked against Herring, I saw a lot of holes in his game the most glaring being that he had no idea how to finish Herring on the ground. I think the old man's got a trick or two up his sleeve and I don't think he would have taken the fight if he didn't already have the game plan to defeat lesnar already in mind.

Finally, on the issue of "purity" of the sport. I'm pretty certain that was thrown out the window long ago. I hear your complaints about Lesnar and Liddell/Evan's upcoming shot when perhaps Machida should get the shot. But honestly should Couture have been given a shot at Sylvia? Did Mark Coleman deserve a shot at Fedor? Does Penn really have any right to claim a shot at GSP? Hell, Serra won his shot by winning a tv show. Selecting a challenger is going to be less than pure from time to time. That's just how it is.

[atj-lucko]

Originally Posted by dagreat1

So from my novel of a post, you gathered that you "think" I'm saying the UFC is becoming more like WWE? Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. From the octagon speeches, Dana having to get air time on every UFC segment, Dana making a daily video blog, Dana contacting Barry Bonds trainer to get the hook up on the "clear", signing Brock Lesner and hyping him to all ends and finally, dictating to the utmost who fights who and basing it all on marketability. It's everything short of fixing fights. Yes I would say with supreme confidence that the UFC looks to be headed in the general direction of the choke-slam.

On this message board there are a lot of pro wrestling fans because Boone prospects them from over at his wrestling website. Maybe in certain areas of the US there are a lot of pro wrestling fans who watch MMA but when I go to Wing House or Gators to watch a UFC PPV there are 0 pro wrestling fans here in Orlando unless Brock Lesner is on the fight card. I'm sure Pro wrestling is big and there are lots of pro wrestling fans everywhere and I see the appeal for them to flock to MMA since they enjoy watching fake fighting so one would assume they would have to love watching real fighting just as much if not more so.

The production value has always been lacking for the UFC and I doubt it will change, you have to remember that wealthy people don't become wealthy by lavish spending, they are conservatives looking to cut costs and corners and the current production they have vs production in Japan is a difference of around $200k per event.

Anderson had no personality in the eye of the general public when he was given a title shot so that theory is put to rest. And even so, if that is in fact the reason behind not giving Machida a title shot, how do you not see a problem with the UFC's inconsistency?

It's business, yeah, I think most of us have a firm grasp on that but what happened to the best fighting the best? That was afterall, the UFC's main focal point while competing with PRIDE. So the UFC's agenda varies from situation to situation but ultimately if they turn the sport into a circus act just to further fatten thier pockets people are OK with it becaue "it's business".

Now where the hell is the logic in that? Do people not have a brain? Can they not see the big picture?

Peep this concept... Someone should start up an MMA promotion and have an A-List Hollywood actor hedlining the event. It will sell more PPV's than ANY other promotion's top drawing card in the history of MMA, Boxing and Pro Wrestling and we can simply chalk it up as "business" so that when someone brings up facts about how lame it is that Hugh Jackman fought Fedor we can all breathe a sigh of relief because we can generalize ANY complaint by simply stating that "it's business" and that answers every complaint within the spectrum.

Actually thats how I got here, it was through Boone's wrestling site Wrestlezone, so thank him for me being here. lol

Other than Lesnar, Ken Shamrock and Dan Severn the UFC and WWE has zero in common.

Anderson Silva's hands do all his talking for him, but just imagine if he could speak English fluently?

Machida's style is not like Chung Le style of Karate, its more a Wushu style counter defensive fighting. I like Machida but he's not Silva.

You talk about UFC turning mma into a circus,so what? I'll watch that circus, cause ultimately the fighting speaks for itself.
UFC 1 was a gimmick, it wasn't anything more but the recreation of movie "Bloodsport" with a Gracie instead of Jean-Claude Van Damme.

UFC roots always had a showmanship style, Pride made it better and Genki Sudo perfected it.

Do I like Brock getting a title shot no, but it was the same way in the WWE, Brock was giving the biggest push ever in the history of wrestling.
I don't know but there's just something about him that people keep letting him cut in line giving him all the breaks.
He's getting a title shot, but people were just talking about his career in jeopardy if he lost to Herring. Strange stuff.

Whats in Dana's mind who knows..

[Spun City]

hmmm......Randy is the UFC HW champion.....if Brock beats him, that makes Brock the HW champion......it's that simple.....in my eyes the champion is supposed to be the best...if Brock wins, then he did deserve the shot b/c he is better.......would you all rather it be a non-title fight? Would you rather Randy fight Werdum or Kongo?....

[jasonIndiana]

the winner of randy/brock has to face the winner of mir/nog to be the real champ. i think its better that both fights are 5 rounds. and it will be good for the ufc and the HW division to have this little tourny. the overall winner will prolly get werdum if he keeps rolling.

[Nasty]

Originally Posted by Spun City

in my eyes the champion is supposed to be the best...if Brock wins, then he did deserve the shot b/c he is better

Kinda like Matt Serra? Besides winning a second chance TUF, what did he do to deserve a shot at the 170 belt? We all know he isn't a better fighter than GSP, except for that one night.

I think Werdum should've gotten the shot at Couture, but from a financial standpoint, Randy/Brock would sell WAY more PPV buys than Werdum/Couture.

[Therawuncut]

I've been underwhelmed with the HW division for some time now. It's been so up and down the last few years that I'll actually settle for an exciting fight over some sense of justice regarding a deserved title shot. Does Mir deserve to face Nog? No. Does Lesnar deserve Couture already? No. Will I be excited as hell to watch both of them? A resounding yes.

The other weight classes don't get this pass from me, but for some reason it just doesn't bother me with the HW division. I pick Nog to take them all anyway.

[bobcat]

Originally Posted by Spun City

hmmm......Randy is the UFC HW champion.....if Brock beats him, that makes Brock the HW champion......it's that simple.....in my eyes the champion is supposed to be the best...if Brock wins, then he did deserve the shot b/c he is better.......would you all rather it be a non-title fight? Would you rather Randy fight Werdum or Kongo?....

Beat me to it, thats almost exactly what I was going say. If Brock wins then he proves he deserved a title shot because he's won the fucker, if he loses then he's not champ so it dosen't matter.

I know i would much rather watch Brock v Randy then Werdum v Randy.

[maxp84z]

Yeah I'm starting to dislike the bullshit the UFC is trying to pull... I dont mind the UFC making this fight to make huge PPV numbers... I just think it shouldnt be for the title. I think the title should have been stripped from Randy. They should have just made the title vacant. Winner of Brock/Randy and winner of Mir/Nog fight for the title would have apeased MMA fans.

See this is kinda why I hate the UFC... The sanctioning bodies referee and call the fights in an unbiased manner. Yet when it comes to who gets to fight who, etc etc... Its completely biased. This is what is going to take credibility away from the UFC and away from the sport of MMA. Its going down the same path of boxing. Meaning doesnt matter whos the best, it only matters who sells the most tickets.

Personally I want to see the best fight the best. I dont care what org hosts these fights but I want to see the top guys in MMA face each other. I know as MMA evolves we'll eventually get to see these superfights but it just seems that Dana is more concerned about making money than the sport. Sometimes you have to put the sport FIRST, even if that means losing some money. I just hate how Dana has changed from this humble guy from 2001 to the man he is now. IN 2001 he was all open to copromoting with other orgs to put on superfights but now its just a pipe dream.

I dont even know why the UFC even considers Affliction a competitor. Dana has said it himself that they'll be out of business by January. Affliction should be a sponsor to the UFC. They should work together.