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[Dr. MMA]

To me it's all part of strategies. Some fighters go for the kill when they see an opening (i.e. machida)... some fighters end up creating openings when they are aggressive (i.e. shogun). Some thrive when they counter a fighter and some thrive when they mount the offense first.

It's all a part of gameplanning. Doesn't matter how much you complain about a fighter, if the opponent can't counter his strategy or implement his own... well that's his own loss, which ultimately results in a L.

[thumper]

machida? go for the kill? Seriously?

By the way, i'd like to add something. A fighter that does nothing but lay on his opponent all fight is VERY different from a fighter that gets way ahead, knows he's won and lays on his opponent.

And for the post that said he'll win fights and not fans, there isn't a winning fighter around that fights to please fans. they fight to win.

[Dr. MMA]

Originally Posted by thumper

machida? go for the kill? Seriously?

well if you just read it like "fighters that go for the kill" then machida is the wrong example. However, I clearly wrote fighters who only go for the kill when they find an opening. The underlined part is the clause. For instance, he did go for the finish when he saw an opening, in his fights against Tito, Nakamura and Soko. He's just very patient when looking for it.

[rivethead]

Originally Posted by thumper

By the way, i'd like to add something. A fighter that does nothing but lay on his opponent all fight is VERY different from a fighter that gets way ahead, knows he's won and lays on his opponent.

If you're referring to Liddell vs. Silva, I didn't have him "way ahead" as Wandi won the second round...and while I agree that there is a difference, I'd say that it's jest not as weak...

rh

[atj-lucko]

Originally Posted by rivethead

I don't know about "acceptable" or not...I'd say is it "respectable."

I don't think Griffin's win over Jackson was really comparable to Guida/Danzig...Griffin mounted an actual offense [winning a 10-8 round] where Guida literally clinched Mac to death. For the record, I thought Jackson/Henderson was a much closer fight than Griffin/Jackson as well.

I think people are going to find different perspectives to view each fight and you aren't going to get a consensus. Off the top of my head:

I thought Chuck literally checking the clock and then taking Wandi down to ride out the last round was weak...but when viewing the rest of the fight, it was a great fight. But it could fall into the same category, and I'm sure a ton of fans would disagree with me.

I thought GSP refusing to strike with Kos and then holding on to a failed kimura for two minutes was weak, but I've actually seen fans write that he dominated Koscheck, so even more fans disagree with me there.

A lot of [idiots who don't understand MMA] think that Machida ran from Tito rather than exchange; but I thought it was a tremendous illustration of skill...and a lot of fans disagree with me [but they're idiots who don't understand MMA].

A lot of people are on Rashad's bandwagon right now about his great game plan in KOing Chuck...but for the first round, he ran from him. So a Chuck fan could compare him to Starnes, but they'd be wrong because he was able to turn it around with one punch.



Would I have liked to have seen Guida exchange more? Sure. Would it probably have cost him the fight? There is a very good possibility. But that's why fighters have game plans.

I don't think it's up to fans to decide what's acceptable or not; a win is pretty much a win 99.9% of the time [A.Johnson's eye poke comes to mind]. And as for whether it's respectable or not, I have to respect anyone with the dedication to get into the ring or cage and test themselves, particularly at the elite level. Maybe not respect them as individuals, but respect their skills and dedication.

rh

I agree with most of your points, I lost a lot of respect for Guida, he just wanted a W, if you do a "Sherk" you lose points my book. I hate it when fighters just lay on someone for a win.

[Repenter]

Originally Posted by rivethead

A lot of [idiots who don't understand MMA] think that Machida ran from Tito rather than exchange; but I thought it was a tremendous illustration of skill...and a lot of fans disagree with me [but they're idiots who don't understand MMA].
rh

you sir, are rep'd.

and as far as going for the kill, of course i love to see it. but manipulating the scorecards is just part of the game. that's how BJ laid a john mcclain-worthy beatdown on GSP but GSP still won, because he edged out on the scorecards in the second and third. guida did absolutely the right thing in his match with danzig. he was patient and very defensive, but he had to be at this point in his UFC career. i don't think he LnP'd at all, as he was still mounting offense and attempting to better position much of the time. not as exciting as, say, huerta-garcia, but still a very technical and tactical match.

[greggo]

I gained respect for Guida for fighting the way he did. Everyone said Mac Danzig was too technical, too good, too slick for Clay. He went out there and straight hustled Mac around, catching kicks and wearing Mac down. If Mac didn't have the energy to keep Clay off of him and clinging to him then that's a testament to how well Clay executed his WINNING strategy. He was taking plenty of risks into Mac's danger zones (being countered, shooting for takedowns, messing with him on the floor and dealing with constant pressure from Mac's kimura attempts). He imposed his will on him and should be commended for it, not chastised for winning.

[bkiser81]

You do what you feel like you have to win the fight, but not finishing has it's cost , like low places on the next card, lower salary, less sponsor money, and getting cut from the promotion after a loss quicker. Look at Houston Alexander that fucker got a five fight deal after losing to in a row ( though it will not be honored ) . Leben get main event status with a average record. Chuck and Wandy can lose a combined 6 of thier last 8 fight yet still end up near the top of the card. making huge money. Then look at Sherk's salary, where machida fight on cards, and what happened to Lindland after wearing a freaking banned t shirt ( I have no idea how he gets 300k a fight, i know he does not bring in those kind of buys to a ppv ) . So lay and pray if you need but it will cost you.