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Old 03-22-2010, 11:04 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Pashak View Post
Strikeforce is going to survive for some years, but there is no way they are going to "defeat" UFC.

Dana White clearly shows that he doesnt give a shit about the real development of the sport, because he wants SF and other organizations to dissappear, and that will affect MMA. The MMA world will be horrible if UFC is going to be the only organization.
I disagree. But with no reasoning behind my choice
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Old 03-23-2010, 12:16 AM   #12 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Pashak View Post
Strikeforce is going to survive for some years, but there is no way they are going to "defeat" UFC.

Dana White clearly shows that he doesnt give a shit about the real development of the sport, because he wants SF and other organizations to dissappear, and that will affect MMA. The MMA world will be horrible if UFC is going to be the only organization.

I don't think Dana just by competing with rival promotions somehow shows he he does care about the development of the sport. I also have no idea where the idea that he wants all other organizations to disappear comes from. He said he like regional promotions and said after this strikeforce thing implodes Scott will go back to putting on regional shows and make money like he always did. Just because you want your org. to the best and number 1 in no way makes you the villian of the mma developement. I do not think ever the UFC will be the only organization and Dana never claimed that is what he wanted either. There will always be foreign promotions and always be regional. So i do not get where this response came from at all.
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Old 03-23-2010, 03:07 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Pashak View Post
Strikeforce is going to survive for some years, but there is no way they are going to "defeat" UFC.

Dana White clearly shows that he doesnt give a shit about the real development of the sport, because he wants SF and other organizations to dissappear, and that will affect MMA. The MMA world will be horrible if UFC is going to be the only organization.
But Dana isn't focused on "the real development of the sport". He is entirely focused on the real development of the UFC. The same way in which the English Premier League is entirely focused on it's own league and not that of La Liga or Seria A. He has a prerogative that is to make the UFC as big as possible, he has no duty of care to you, me or even MMA as a whole. It might suck, but that's business.

I don't see why it's going to be so hideous for MMA if UFC is the super dominant organisation. In many other sports this is the case also but it hasn't ruined these sports as a spectacle. See NFL, EPL, NBA.

What we desperately want to avoid is how boxing has gone and have competing organisations to the point when it's very difficult to put on all the fights people want to see and there's no real distinction as to who the real Champions are.

I understand that competition can force the best out of competitors and have read various case studies as to how sales can be improved for competitors by expanding the industry as a whole rather than bashing away at each others sales and trying to cannibalise consumers (ie Coke vs Pepsi, grow Cola consumption as a whole rather than just trying to steal the oppositions market share). However this doesn't tend to work in the field of sport, one organisation tends to dominate and then focus on growing the market as a whole when they all but control it.
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Old 03-23-2010, 05:40 AM   #14 (permalink)
 
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So I guess all the previous talk about dana not feeling like Strikeforce is a viable opponent wasn't 100% truthful? Shocking.

I honestly think dana tried to counter program and he couldn't pull it together. He's clearly affected by the even marginal successes of Strikeforce, as much as he'd love to pretend that he's not.



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I don't see why it's going to be so hideous for MMA if UFC is the super dominant organisation.
For me, it comes down to dana. If dana were a less emotional, and had more integrity, I would be more comfortable with the UFC becoming a monopoly. I wouldn't be happy--as I don't agree with monopolies--but I'd be more comfortable, knowing the sport I care about is essentially run by someone I trust.

But dana is a reactionary bullshitter, who thinks nothing of going back on his word, of lying with a smirk on his face, and who lets emotions dictate how he runs his business. I'm completely not comfortable with him as a figure in MMA. I've said it repeatedly, I think he's holding MMA back from becoming a mainstream sport. The UFC is succeeding despite him, not because of him.

Note, I wouldn't put Coker at the helm of the industry either. I had great hopes for him at one point, but not right now. Although I once had great hopes for dana, too, back when he was still an advocate of copromotion.

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In many other sports this is the case also but it hasn't ruined these sports as a spectacle. See NFL, EPL, NBA.
People try to make the comparison all the time, but it doesn't apply if you look at it more closely. First, each sport has a clearly defined and accepted set of rules: MMA does not. dana has said that the UFC will never do tourneys, even though they're perfectly sanctionable in the US, for instance. But the UFC won't ever do them because he doesn't like them.

And each of the leagues you've mentioned are run by people with a legitimate great mind for business. They have an interest in the sport succeeding as well as the brand. Aside from dana's relative emotional maturity [I'm giving him credit by putting him at about 12] he focuses on the UFC above MMA--which I understand is his job, but is not great for the sport as a whole.

He's also focusing on marketing to a specific niche that is counter to the mainstream. The juvenile 18-35 demographic might enjoy the melodrama of guys eating each others semen, but that's not going to get MMA into the Olympics, is it? It's funny, some people within that demographic are pleased to be the target of his attention, in that they see dana as "keeping it real" by dropping f-bombs like a 12 year old who's parent's are out of earshot, but what they don't realize is that the behavior is still marginalized, they just see it as normalized because they're part of the clique. They also don't realize that dana doesn't really care as long as the UFC is making money, and that if the numbers went into the black, he'd turn on them quicker than Randy Couture goes through trophy wives.

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What we desperately want to avoid is how boxing has gone and have competing organisations to the point when it's very difficult to put on all the fights people want to see and there's no real distinction as to who the real Champions are.
I agree that boxing is in shambles, but I don't think co-promotion immediately equates to the boxing model. Some people see it as a foregone conclusion, but I think thats reducing a complex field of variables into an oversimplified black-and-white issue. Again, it comes down to the egos involved and an unwillingness to simply have the best fight the best--something the UFC has already shown, even before they've secured their monopoly.

Quote:
I understand that competition can force the best out of competitors and have read various case studies as to how sales can be improved for competitors by expanding the industry as a whole rather than bashing away at each others sales and trying to cannibalise consumers (ie Coke vs Pepsi, grow Cola consumption as a whole rather than just trying to steal the oppositions market share). However this doesn't tend to work in the field of sport, one organisation tends to dominate and then focus on growing the market as a whole when they all but control it.
I think by the time the UFC dominates, it will be too late to grow the market as a whole...unless the Fertittas finaly step in and start making moves on their own. I think the niche marketing comes at the expense of mainstream--to undeveloped minds, it's easier to define what you're not than what you actually are--and it's just making it harder for MMA to be accepted universally in the long run.

And I certainly don't see a monopoly any better than boxing. I see the continuation of sham interim titles and undeserving contenders overhyped to have the unwashed punters accept them as viable. I see rematches as a thing of the past, unless they can sell PPVs. I see credible fighters with world-class skill sets overlooked for marginal guys who "stand and bang" and can give a good sound byte. We've already seen how without competition the UFC is completely comfortable saturating the market with mediocre and overhyped cards in an effort to squeeze two or three more PPV's a year out of fans, but with competition, they bring the much better, viable cards they're capable of putting on.

I just don't see good things for MMA as a sport with dana at the helm of the industry. I could see things turning for the better if Lorenzo would step in, but I think that co-promotion has just as much chance to make things better, and that it doesn't immediately need to default to the boxing model.

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Old 03-23-2010, 07:35 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I agree that boxing is in shambles, but I don't think co-promotion immediately equates to the boxing model. Some people see it as a foregone conclusion, but I think thats reducing a complex field of variables into an oversimplified black-and-white issue. Again, it comes down to the egos involved and an unwillingness to simply have the best fight the best--something the UFC has already shown, even before they've secured their monopoly.
Yeah but surely dude this is simply because we've got a very uneven playing field going on here. The UFC putting up any of their top guys is risking far more than any other organisation. Realistically we've got 4 or 5 top fighters outside of the UFC in total ie Fedor, Mousas, Aoki, Hendo, Alvarez maybe a few others.

They're in a position where they don't NEED to engage these guys to put on top fights, they have the other 7 or 8 in the top 10 contenders and can continue to put these fights on, where as rival organisations simply don't have the talent pool. It'll never be an even swap, the UFC will always have to put more down on the table because they have the largest slice of the cake.

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And each of the leagues you've mentioned are run by people with a legitimate great mind for business. They have an interest in the sport succeeding as well as the brand.
I've worked with some of the top brass from the EPL and trust me they don't all fall into that category. It's incestuous to the point where certain nameless top people give out multi million pound contracts to their mates just because they were the best man at their weddings.

I'm in two minds. I think competition is always healthy for an industry as it forces people to evolve quickly and give people what they want. However I do wonder what could be if everything were unified, long term rule sets could be decided and MMA given the chance to become more mainstream. While there are different rule sets, different rings / cages / weight classes things can never truelly take off as it will always confuse certain fans. Having to sit down and explain to people why sometime this is illegal and sometimes it isn't just confuses them and prevents them from really getting into what is a fantastic spectacle at times.

What MMA needs is a FIFA equivalent. Randy at the helm and some1 who understands marketing and business alongside him! Go go go!
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he'd turn on them quicker than Randy Couture goes through trophy wives.
Genius sir, I stand and applaud you.
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