MMA News Forums » MMA Forums » General MMA Forum

[ckauffman28]

i can gurantee all three of these fights will not happen on the same card. They still need a headliner for the Nov ppv and it will prob be one of those fights

[buddahman]

Originally Posted by Bloodbeard

Velasquez is about twice as good as Lesnar in all areas except wrestling where they are about even and in MMA I'd give the edge to Velasquez. Think back to Lesnar/Couture and imagine Couture had very technical and good striking and factor in what happened in the Lesnar/Carwin fight. It's pretty obvious what is going to happen. If I were to just base my decision on that alone I think it's enough to go with Velasquez BUT then you have to factor in that he can follow a gameplan. What do you think his gameplan will be after he has seen the Lesnar/Carwin fight? If Carwin had stuck to a gameplan of just trading on the feet with Lesnar there is no way he would have lost. I was fully prepared to change my mind about Lesnar if he had done anything impressive in the Carwin bout but he just looked terrible in all areas. I just don't get how someone can watch his last fight and think he can beat Velasquez in any area. That is laughable.

The only way Lesnar wins is if Velasquez seizes up and stops being able to move.

cain is gonna get taken down and pounded out, its just that simple. hes not gonna be able to stuff lesnars takedowns. he just doesnt have the size or strength.

[MMA, Esq.]

As much as I'd like Cain to win (and, probably moreso, Brock to lose), I just can't see it happening. All things being equal, I do think Cain is a better P4P MMA fighter than Brock, but there's going to be, what, 40 pound weight advantage on the night of the fight (240 lb Cain and a re-hydrated 280 lb Brock)? If they were both 240, I'd give it to Cain hands down, but sometimes weight and mass just get to be too much.

[BBG]

I cannot see these fights all being on the same card.

Cain IMO is going to get hurt pretty bad on the ground. Like the Mir beating... He better keep it standing as long as possible, then he has the ability to control the fight and the judges.

[Bloodbeard]

Originally Posted by buddahman

cain is gonna get taken down and pounded out, its just that simple. hes not gonna be able to stuff lesnars takedowns. he just doesnt have the size or strength.

What makes you think he can take Velasquez down so easily? There is no precedent for that. We just saw that Lesnar couldn't even come close to landing a TD on Carwin in R1. He probably won't stuff every TD but when Lesnar does get him down he will have to concentrate so hard on just holding him there and avoiding getting submitted that he probably won't land very many punches in the process. Definitely not enough to get a TKO.

So why couldn't Lesnar take Carwin down? Have you even asked yourself that question? Lesnar's MMA wrestling is overrated and he wilts under any kind of pressure on the feet. He will lose to any wrestler with really good striking 9 times out of 10. Sure Lesnar has a size "advantage" but if he can't use that to finish the fight then it becomes a disadvantage as the fight progresses. The only fresh wrestler Lesnar has taken down in his ENTIRE career was Couture and Velasquez would annihilate him.

The only unproven Xfactor is that Velasquez is much better than Mir off his back (you are saying things without backing them up). When Lesnar does take him down I wouldn't be surprised at all if he got subbed by Velasquez. Velasquez has the most underrated groundgame this side of JDS in the UFC. Velasquez > Mir off his back.

Originally Posted by MMA, Esq.

As much as I'd like Cain to win (and, probably moreso, Brock to lose), I just can't see it happening. All things being equal, I do think Cain is a better P4P MMA fighter than Brock, but there's going to be, what, 40 pound weight advantage on the night of the fight (240 lb Cain and a re-hydrated 280 lb Brock)? If they were both 240, I'd give it to Cain hands down, but sometimes weight and mass just get to be too much.

We'll see if Lesnar can make anything of his only advantage in this fight. I will die of shock.

p.s. - I died of shock when Lesnar beat Carwin too. I almost cried.

[goodtimes]

Originally Posted by 23Xtreme

I'm sorry, but Cain is just so relentless. I don't think Lesnar can handle Cain's speed, punching combinations coming from different angles, highkicks...IMO, its highly possible that Lesnar will eat a high kick that will either knock him out or at least set up the tko...So going into this bout, Lesnar's best gameplan will be to take down Cain and overpower him with grappling technique and getting Cain in a dangerous predicament until he finishes with a tko, ko or sub...Cain is not going to ever give up in that fight even if he is in trouble of getting ko'd or subbed, he is a warrior...It all depends if Lesnar can take down Cain, most think he can and its highly likely that he will...Cain might want to try and keep the fight standing, but who knows, he might just try and outwrestle Brock, Cain is very strong and can pick up guys as heavy as Kongo (although Kongo doesn't have his wrestling strong enough) and Rothwell (who has decent wrestling, but yet was still no match for Cain)..and we know Brock has a strong base, but Cain CAN take him down and that is a fact...

I was roaming Sherdog today because I couldn't get in MMANEWS for some reason and actually found a good and informative post regarding Cain and Brock when it came to their wrestling so...here is some food for thought..



Oh and there is a strong rumour that 120 is going to be free on Spike as "Dana making up for 112"

The article on Sherdog you found was great, good read. Just from watching their respective fights, I see amazing technique from Cain and if people think Brock is going to just double leg him to the ground at will I think they are not picking up on how good Cain's wrestling is. Where as Brock seems to rely more on overpowering his opponents, Cain seems to have the superior technique. Adding in how much better Cain's stand up looks, I think he he will cause a lot of problems for Brock.

Also, at those weights, size and strength are not everything. Everyone says Cain is just not big enough, but we saw how much Brock struggled to take down Randy, and thats a clear 70 pound weight difference, and Brock is supposed to be the far superior amateur wrestler. Cain wrestled against these huge guys all through college (as 23Xtreme brought up with that article), and none of them tossed him around. Anyone who uses Mir as an example of how awesome Brock's ground game is I think is misguided. Every single one of Mir's losses has come from getting pounded on off his back or in the clinch. He does not protect himself well when the fight gets in close, its just not something he does. Mir is basically a fighter tailor made to be beaten by Brock, and even so Mir managed to catch him in the first fight.

[BSums]

I think the big difference between these two is Cain's heart. We saw him rocked several times in the Kongo fight, and he kept coming back for more.(I think we can all agree Kongo's striking is more polished than Brock's) I think If Cain can weather an early storm and bring Brock into deep water his heart and cardio will make a big difference.
In any event, after all this time I find myself finally warming up to Brock a little bit,(I can't believe I just said that.) and I can't wait for this matchup.

[noahm]

The good thing about Cain in this fight, is he wont be afraid to stick to his gameplan. He has wrestled guys this big plenty and will not be afraid to engage. Brock has a giant grip, which is, imo, his greatest asset in controlling people. This is one that is difficult to put odds on because it really could go either way. I am rooting for Cain, but Brock is going to be 40-50 lbs heavier, so who knows. Brock seems to lose confidence when he doesn't have a clear advantage in some dept, so that may play out as well. The Brock > everyone in wrestling argument is kind of shot after seeing Carwin. MMA wrestling is a whole other world.

[johnny Boom]

Why the hell does my brother have to get married the day of this card? Anybody wanna take my place as best man? I'll pay.

[Lesnar_FTW]

Before UFC 116 people said, "I have no doubts that Carwin is going to beat Lesnar". Now we're hearing, "I have no doubts that Cain is going to beat Lesnar". After that we are going to hear, "I have no doubts that JDS is going to beat Lesnar". I wonder who we're going to hear after that.