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[rivethead]

Originally Posted by DonFrye

I always thought more of that came from the Hughes rematch where it is openly debated whether or not he actually had a separated rib.

That's one of the issues, particularly because Rogan stated repeatedly that he'd gassed...Joe later went on to retract that statement, but the damage was done, becuase if people see/hear it on TV, then it must be true.

Originally Posted by Sakara=Excitement

Penn himself has said before his conditioning has been an issue in the past more so than it should of been. He said he had bad conditioning (gassing early) so I'm inclined to listen to him.

He's said he's worked to improve it, but the myth is that it cost him multiple fights.

I can guarantee that there will be a ton of dipshit posters who will question Penn's conditioning and cardio for the Fitch fight as it gets closer. It's too firmly imbedded in the public psyche to go away.

rh

[SWIFTboy]

Originally Posted by rivethead

I can guarantee that there will be a ton of dipshit posters who will question Penn's conditioning and cardio for the Fitch fight as it gets closer. It's too firmly imbedded in the public psyche to go away.

Before the GSP vs Penn II fight, many people either critisized Penn's cardio or GSP's heart ( or mental game or ''he's an athlete not a fighter'').

I made the argument at the time that one of the reasons these perceived weaknesses get exaggerated is counter-intuitively, simply because both fighters are so GOOD!

In other words, since both fighters are elite, any perceived weakness gets magnified. So maybe Penn doesn't have bad cardio; maybe he just has average cardio. Compared to his elite level striking, BJJ, power, etc it begins to APPEAR as relative weakness.

It begins as a reasonable critique, something that a fighter can improve upon to become even greater. Sadly, in the usual style created by the hater vs nutthugger mentality, it gets completely warped into an exaggeration.

I'm sure other factors are at play but I think this definitely contributes to myths such as Penn's cardio problems.

[Dr. MMA]

Good thread SWIFTboy. During the Machida-Shogun rematch, Goldberg mentioned that there has been a rematch 27 times in the UFC where the original winner won 13 times, the opponent won 13 times and 1 went to a draw. So it's 13-13-1. Shogun eventually won that rematch, Frankie beat Penn again, Fitch beat Alves again, Lytle beat Serra and GSP beat Kos again (from the top of my head), so it's 16-15-1. I'm probably missing 1 or 2 other rematches.

I'm not sure if Goldberg included trilogies, which is why I didn't mentioned Hughes-Penn 3

Originally Posted by rivethead

It's worth noting because it's one of two timed Penn ever actually gassed in an MMA fight. The second time was against Georges at UFC 58,--in a fight where Georges also gassed, although that is commonly overlooked. It is the only shred of reality to the myth of Penn not having any conditioning.

Penn has also admitted that he gassed in the first Frankie Edgar fight and I'm unsure if he said the same for the 2nd one. The reason GSP's is overlooked is because BJ looked more tired than GSP and GSP had his nose broken, which forced him to breathe from his mouth and the open mouth is commonly seen as a sign of fatigue.

I agree with SWIFTboy about weaknesses getting magnified for elite fighters.

[Sakara=Excitement]

Originally Posted by rivethead

That's one of the issues, particularly because Rogan stated repeatedly that he'd gassed...Joe later went on to retract that statement, but the damage was done, becuase if people see/hear it on TV, then it must be true.


He's said he's worked to improve it, but the myth is that it cost him multiple fights.

I can guarantee that there will be a ton of dipshit posters who will question Penn's conditioning and cardio for the Fitch fight as it gets closer. It's too firmly imbedded in the public psyche to go away.

rh

Well Penn even said he didn't have the conditioning for the Edgar rematch.

BJ Penn Still Looking to Pass Cardio Quiz After 23 Professional Fights | 5thRound.com – UFC News, Strikeforce and MMA News, UFC 125 Play-by-Play Results

“I tried some stuff in the Frankie Edgar fight. I didn’t defend the takedowns as hard as I wanted to because I wanted to try a couple sweeps, but I didn’t have the conditioning,” Penn admitted in an interview with Joe Rogan (Transcribed by CagePotato). “[It’s] always a wake-up call when you lose because you know you’re going to alter something in your training. Something has to change in the training.

[Dr. MMA]

Originally Posted by Sakara=Excitement

Well Penn even said he didn't have the conditioning for the Edgar rematch.

Okay, so you confirmed that he gassed in both Edgar fights.

[Sakara=Excitement]

Well I just wanted to point out that this Penn conditioning "myth" has more truth to it than people would like to believe.

[SWIFTboy]

Originally Posted by Sakara=Excitement

Well I just wanted to point out that this Penn conditioning "myth" has more truth to it than people would like to believe.

OR it's so powerfull that BJ has been sucked into it!!!

[carbondioxide830]

havent been around in a few days, but this is a really good thread.

if the issue is about fedor getting a rematch w/ werdum, i oppose and say werdum should rematch overeem instead. a rematch from a fight years pass is always more interesting than a fight that just happened.

it's safe to say overeem is a different fighter than the first time he and werdum fought, but to be honest, i don't see fedor or werdum changing all that much since last summer (i guess that's why you want the rematch, huh?).

with that said, this is the perfect platform for me to campaign for st. pierre/penn III after bj smashes fitch!

[the_dark_angel_4ever]

Originally Posted by carbondioxide830

havent been around in a few days, but this is a really good thread.

if the issue is about fedor getting a rematch w/ werdum, i oppose and say werdum should rematch overeem instead. a rematch from a fight years pass is always more interesting than a fight that just happened.

it's safe to say overeem is a different fighter than the first time he and werdum fought, but to be honest, i don't see fedor or werdum changing all that much since last summer (i guess that's why you want the rematch, huh?).

with that said, this is the perfect platform for me to campaign for st. pierre/penn III after bj smashes fitch!

I think it'll be interesting if/when Fedor smashes Werdum in a rematch, say in 60 seconds or so.... do they then immediately have to have a rubber match? THAT right there is the exact reason I dislike immediate rematches.

[The Return Of......]

Originally Posted by Dr. MMA

Okay, so you confirmed that he gassed in both Edgar fights.

im a huge bj fan (the fighter as well as receiving). i would love to think that he just wasnt prepared and though hell as long as i dont have a sinus infection i should walk through this kid and his cardio just wasnt there.

but couldnt it also be that since so many people do question his cardio that if he losses he just throughs that out the to try to save face from saying he beat me. straight up he just beat me