MMA News Forums » MMA Forums » General MMA Forum

[joeodd2]

Did anyone catch the LNP diatribe from Cole Miller and notice how that seemed to annoy Joe Rogan, who then during another match commented on how the fighter on the bottom had such an "active guard" and didn't just lay there? Seemed like Joe's comments were kind of a dig at Cole for criticizing Wrestlers and Ju Jitsu guys who didn't try to finish fights. Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but it seems that Dan Hardy may have re-heated a great debate among MMA fighters. It's hard to argue with either point of view really...it's up to the guy on the bottom to not allow the guy on top to LNP, at the same time the guy on the top should feel some pressure to actually fight and try to work toward a finish. If both guys "stalemate" each other, then maybe after 2 minutes the ref should be able to determine if quicker stand ups are necessary. I'm all for fighters doing both things personally, trying to finish and moving their hips trying to make something happen from the bottom. I just found that to be kind of interesting last night....

[Chute_Boxe44]

No your right about Rogan man. He's always felt that way about the grappling game. He's even said on a number of occasions that he's completely against the ref standing fighters up due to lack of action in full guard (which I completely disagree with him on).

It may have been a coincidence due to Miller making the dig earlier though, but who knows.

[TheKidInside]

Joe Rogan keeps forgetting this is not a grappling match...

[joeodd2]

I wonder if Joe Rogan ever really sat down for a few hours to watch Amateur Wrestling?

Does anyone on the boards sit down to watch it? Actually I had watched a few Olympic Wrestling matches, not very exciting, but strangely enough they had more action than many LNP MMA fights....weird...

[ckauffman28]

i agree its mma and not grappling but if two guys were just banging and no one had a clear advantage would a ref make them get on the ground? No.. i agree with the active guard i love a fighter with good ground and pound but cant stand a lay and preyer

[joeodd2]

Originally Posted by ckauffman28

i agree its mma and not grappling but if two guys were just banging and no one had a clear advantage would a ref make them get on the ground? No.. i agree with the active guard i love a fighter with good ground and pound but cant stand a lay and preyer

That's a fair point too.....personally I like the way the UFC is holding Fitch back from a title shot.....Antoinio Mcgee recently gave in to the pressure and decided to become a finisher, we'll see how long that lasts but maybe the fans need to light a fire under some asses, maybe go on a beer break during live events when a guy uses LNP, write promoters, make it known that the tactic will not be rewarded by the fans....Of course with all the action in MMA, this is really a small issue....

[beau420]

I thought both Joe and Cole were both referring to the Lentz/Winner fight debate that has been so active on the internet...and a number of articles have since been written by Sherdog, MMAJunkie and BloodyElbow.

[Xtremo]

The thing with wrestling is that, in that discipline, it's about winning on points and controlling, getting dominant positions etc. There is no strikes allowed in amateur wrestling and also their are no subs allowed...So basically, there is no finishing in that discipline...

With boxing/Muay Thai/any other stand up, and JJ, it's about finishing your opponent...

So when a good wrestler ( a wrestler who naturally walks two or more weight classes more than the weight class they fight in) fights a fighter who is overall weak compared to the said wrestler in the wrestling department, then we get a boring fight...

Wrestlers who are known to LNP, should really, and I mean REALLY, work on their ground and pound, because all they try to do is transition into a dominant position only to not know what to do next...Then the ones who go for a sub usually lose it, like say a LNP'er gets to side control and goes for a kimura and they lose it, then they stand up again and the LNP'er goes for another takedown...

I do agree that it is up to other fighters to work very hard on their takedown defense and if they get taken down, it is up to them to escape from their control and/or reverse the LNP'er OR they can create a scramble to make their way up to the feet...

Chael Sonnen is a wrestler just like any other LNP'er, BUT Chael knows how to GNP very effectively and even though he doesn't win a fight by finishing the opponent most of time, at least he is trying to finish said opponent and we at least get to see some HARD shots land..

[Y2JUBAE]

I'm no fan of lay and pray either. If you are controlling someone, and after 5 minutes, you are in the same position, what exactly is the point? How is that winning? I know in wrestling controlling is the key to victory but this isn't wrestling. There is no damage being done just laying there. Chael showed everyone what to do on the ground in his fight against Silva.

To me it's all about actually working. If you are a fighter who is just laying there holding the other fighter down, running down the clock, that is no different than standing up and running. It's the difference between trying to be the greatest fighter of all time or the luckiest coward.

[YukonJordan]

Two words: Yellow cards.

You start fining guys 10% of their purse for not trying to finish or stalemating and the whole game changes.