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[MrSpanky]

Originally Posted by joeodd2

With Dana White's ego I can see the UFC making many mistakes and missing out on lots of exciting talent.

I think you're confusing business savy with an inflated ego. Dana White doesn't make the decisions he make of who he signs and the way he runs the company because he likes himself. He's smart and he knows what needs to be done behind the scenes. Plus he works like an animal. That's the reason there won't be an anti-Dana White anywhere anytime soon...at least not a successful one.

The UFC and Dana White are two different entities. It's not like the UFC will crumble when Dana retires. The man is a manager and he knows how to run a company.

A perfect example is Fedor. Would you say that the UFC does not write Fedor's checks right now because Dana White doesn't like Fedor, or doesn't want his prized Heavyweights getting beat? He would have signed Fedor if he didn't have so many strings attached with M-1. The UFC doesn't collaborate with other fighting organizations because it would bring the UFC down and the other organization would be like a parasite. So to say that that incident, or any other incident that Dana didn't sign someone, was because Dana White has a big ego is like saying Google is greedy because they don't give all of their money to Yahoo.

[GL Jeff]

Good thread. If I repeat someone else,lemme know and ill rep you,lol.

Answering the question the thread title is actually asking. If their was an anti-Dana, wouldnt he be equally as bad? Or are you looking more for a complete opposite of DW, because if so,its Scott Coker,lol.

I think if you look at every major sport out their,its ONE brand that is at the top,and then it trickles down, depending on the sport,mostly into the school system but other smaller leagues. And that works, athletes try to be in the big game,and strive for that, and as they get older they move into the smaller ponds or retire. And thats what we have with the UFC, then DREAM and Strikeforce as smaller ponds, with SharkFights, Bellator, and a few others in the mix too. And as other people said,if their was a promotion equal to the UFC you would see ALOT of watered down talent, and wouldnt get as many top 10 fighting one another.

If anything, I would want more Shark Fights, Bellator, type promotions acting like a farm league to feed into the UFC. And that way the newer guys have a leg to stand on with their contract at first.

[IceCold48]

ugh another stupid thread...dana is great for the sport as much as he pisses me off and "anti dana white" wouldnt do shit if anything it would be annoying.

but you do make a good point about the tapout fans but they wont go away. a new promoter wont be able to attract casual fans to real mma and not kimbo slams and batista bombs. mma and the ufc are in great places, nothing needs to change imo.

[mma #1 fan]

Originally Posted by Dr. MMA

I think a lot of people forget the role Lorenzo played. Dana gets all the credit for the work that Lorenzo did just because he was the public figure of the company.

There are exactly three reasons why the UFC is as big as it is today:
[1] NSAC sanctioning it in 2001
[2] returning to PPV in 2001
[3] Ultimate fighter in 2002 (sadly but true)

- Let's start with point 1: Lorenzo was the only reason that the NSAC sanctioned it. He was the bloody commissioner of the NSAC for about 4 years. He had all the ties to the commission.
- The sanctioning led directly to point 2. If NSAC wasn't on board, PPV wouldn't have been either.
- On to point 3, it was Lorenzo's idea to have a reality show and Dana White was verrry against it. Go find the video of where he says this in an interview. The idea was bought by Spike TV, the only outlet who bought it I may add and a deal that the Fertitas negotiated.

Now let's move on to the present and the near future. What are the UFC's primary goal? Global expansion. Who is in charge of that? Lorenzo Fertita. He quit his position as CEO of station casinos to take on this task.

People have to get their head out of Dana's ass. He is clearly the public speaking figure of the company and gets credit for stuff that he played a minor role in. Deadstealth said it well. Let's say we even give Dana that credit (quite undeservingly I may add), his attitude and unprofessional behaviour will be the barrier for them to get to where they envision. He is hot headed and immature (which he clearly admitted) which has caused problems with a lot of big fighters: Tito, Randy, BJ, Rampage, Fitch to name a few and has also caused other fighters to not want to sign with him, i.e. Fedor and Barnett. The fighters which did come to terms with Dana negotiated their deal directly with Lorenzo.

nice topic joeodd2! You get my respect here.

very nicely put i do think you could have added a 4th
great fights. They would not be were they are with out some dam good fights.

[McTee]

I see a few different subjects/points in this thread.

1. Dana White: good/bad for MMA? Say what you will about Dana's personality or boorish behaviour, but Dana connects with fans. In order to gain popularity with the most people, you have to connect with the most people and it's as simple as that. Yes it is mixed martial arts, and we shouldn't lose sight of the Arts part, but in its most basic form these are FIGHTS and fights are going to appeal to certain people and not to others. To me, the best strategy would be to suck people in with fights and then educate them on the fighting styles. Basketball sucked people in with highlights of Dr. J, MJ and 'Nique dunking all over the place, not by educating them on the pick-and-roll. Baseball wants you to come to the ballpark to see homeruns, they aren't trying to sell the intricacies of the different pitches. The NFL sells big plays, not the blocking schemes that make it all happen. I think that Dana has it in perspective. I've been to one live event and was annoyed by the lack of informed fans, but I've also seen that at NBA games. My brother went to UFC 100 in Vegas and came back shaking his head about the guy that kept yelling "Punch him in the heart!!!" to Thiago Alves as Alves was just trying to stay alive and on his feet. WTF?

2. Monopoly of the UFC / Cutting fighters: As others have said, it is best if the top talent is in one spot. To me the most frustrating thing is wondering how Fedor would do against top UFC HWs and how guys like Gegard Mousasi, Eddie Alvarez, Nick Diaz, Shinya Aoki, Gilbert Melendez and Jake Shields would do against the UFC competition and having no avenue to find out (until now with Shields). Cutting fighters: Complain all you want about fighters being cut, but I'd rather they get sent packing then have uncommitted guys cluttering the cards over other, more hungry fighters. No way do I want to see Kimbo get owned repeatedly just to serve out a 5 fight deal when someone else is more deserving. When the inmates run the asylum, things never work out well, period. Maybe one day a fighters' union would help, and I'm sure that we'll see that sometime in the future. For now, let's just get the sport to grow up a bit.

[DanC]

I really liked your post up until this point:

Originally Posted by deadstealth

Dana has kept all of the top HWs out of the ufc, (barnett, overeem, fedor - ya some of those might do PEDS but so does everyone in the ufc already)

It's a terribly generalised sweeping statement to suggest 'everyone in the UFC does PEDs' and, well... just untrue.

As for the rest of your post, I think you definitely have a point about Dana maybe not being the best person to be leading the UFC as the Sport grows. Whilst I agree that his emotional personality isn't necessarily the best thing for a huge business, it does make the UFC a little more appealing, as Dana is a marketable character, as the "I don't take any sh*t, straight-talking, no nonsense big boss".

[goodtimes]

Originally Posted by rodneykm

I want to see the best fighters fight the best fighters. If you don't have that, what is the point? You might as well just go watch boxing.

Back when Ortiz was a dominant champion, he was creaming everyone. Then Chuck Liddell came along, he was KOing everyone he fought. Ortiz just would not fight him. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the reason Liddell went to fight in Pride was because Ortiz just refused to fight him and Liddell got frustrated and tried to win a belt somewhere else. If it wasn't for Randy Couture beating both of them down, who knows what would have happened.

Also, take Lesnar for example. He says whatever he wants. He refuses to take part in almost any media obligations. But because there was so much buzz about him, and he had incredible PPV numbers, he got a title shot after going 1-1. What if he started turning down fights? He makes so much money for the UFC, could they really refuse him?

Btw, have you ever really watched boxing? People talk so much shit about it, but they have damn good fights. Top ten fighters fight each other all the time. There are plenty of guys who are tough as nails, who fight the best guys they can (once they have refined there skills of course). In a lot of ways, boxings most visible face right now is an aberration. Mayweather just does not want to fight Pacquiao; he has made a career out of picking exactly the fights he wants. In my opinion, the decline of boxing can be attributed to the lack of an exciting HW that American fans can relate to. In Europe, the Klitschko brothers are huge, but not so much in the US.

In a lot of ways, boxing operates just like the UFC. They put on fights they think will make money. Why did Thiago Alves have to wait for the title fight till after BJ Penn, when Penn hadn't won a single fight at WW to earn it? Why did Brock get a title shot? Why did it take so long for Machida and Fitch to get title shots, and why hasn't Okami ever gotten a title shot? Just like in boxing, the UFC makes fights that will forward it's own best interests.

[The Return Of......]

the only way 2 big time promotions will ever work is if another pride starts up somewhere over sea's (probably even in japan)

even if a company did get big here in the states it wouldnt last. think NFL AFL. the money would be too good not to merge

i think the best thing for the sport right now is smaller feeder type organizations where those who are slightly past there prime, or need a tune up, or just breaking in can fight. think your shark fights or bellator fights.

i think dana is fine for now, and i think most fans know that lorenzo is very hands on for global expansion and such.

i dont get why people bitch about fight pay. hell there was an article posted on here not long ago about an interview with gerald harris who was talking about getting his to show money paid when the fight didnt go down and he even said yea theres a lot of bonuses and help with medical bills that the public doesnt hear about. just cuz some home town fighter aint making bank to fight in his first ufc as a chance to show the home town crowd one there fighters in the show isnt a reason to bitch about pay.

joe, i cant say i agree with you, and it think it comes off a bit ranty but good topic

[deadstealth]

Originally Posted by DanC

I really liked your post up until this point:


It's a terribly generalised sweeping statement to suggest 'everyone in the UFC does PEDs' and, well... just untrue.

As for the rest of your post, I think you definitely have a point about Dana maybe not being the best person to be leading the UFC as the Sport grows. Whilst I agree that his emotional personality isn't necessarily the best thing for a huge business, it does make the UFC a little more appealing, as Dana is a marketable character, as the "I don't take any sh*t, straight-talking, no nonsense big boss".

More do than dont. Whether its an allowed PED, prescription PED, HGH or stimulant...Very few fighters at that level are doing it completely naturally or have been natural for most of their careers. Some do, most dont. Sad but true.

He's a marketable character but not to the sponsors who have to put possibly millions on the line. Now if you want a statement that makes some pretty big leaps, that would be that dana is a damn good front man for this mob funded operation. (but thats purely speculation) Just look how he acts...friends with "fertitta", who was running the nevada commission for 4 years with all the connections (as was mentioned earlier) Maybe its a coincidence that an italian-american with massive amounts of money and ties to nevadas casino industry hires a goombah wannabe like dana...crocop did say in the press confrence he took this fight bc "don corleone (fertitta) made me an offer i couldnt refuse"....just saying

[Antiprez]

Let's be honest, this is now an American centric sport. Yes MMA exist elsewhere, and yes there are fans all over the globe, but by focusing on the casual American market and bleeding it over into the international scene companies stand to make the most money. That is what matters. Money. Cheddar. Bucks. Stripper coupons. Whatever you want to call it, capital gain is the most important part of any business. MMA is now a business. It is no longer a sport in the purist sense of the term, but a form of entertainment. The same is true for Baseball, Football, Hockey, whatever. It is being packaged to be consumed by people in the simplist way possible. The masses don't want to look up stats, think logically, research fighters or spend hours on the internet debating a topic. They don't care about Pride or Strikeforce or whatever. They want to be entertained. Disagree? Fine, but what is the point of a commentator then? Is it not to supply the audience with interesting facts about a fighter, or to explain to them what is happening in terms they understand? Yes there are those out there who love MMA, who want to know more about it's history and explore it's every nuance, but for everyone of those there are twenty assholes in NASCAR T-Shirts screaming about how "ground fight'in" is for fags. Those twenty fans spend more then one of you, draw in more ad revenue then one of you and demand more attention then one of you. This is not the death knell for MMA. This, unfortunately is a natural progression into mainstream America.

Dana White is not the problem. He is only a company stooge and a carnival barker that packages himself in a way that makes him seem edgy and cool to Joe Sixpack. Yes his brash attitude and antics have lost them sponsors and fighters. But it doesn't matter. Because at the end of the day there will always be enough name brand products out there that want to be associated with the newest fads and everyone that leaves them will eventually be replaced by another coporate giant whose panties get all wet by the mere thought of a couple of million people worth of their target demographic tuning in the station and turning off their mind. Fighters will come and go. The best of the best of the best only really matters to those one in twenty that follow MMA fanatically. The rest are content to watch an aging Randy Couture take on a way past prime James Toney.

MMA will follow NFL, NHL and MLB formating in America. There will be one dominate show and a handful of others scrapping by in their monolithic shadow. It is easier that way. Simpler for the every day casual fan to follow. That's the way companies like it. It is easier for advertising to reach a solid cohesive group by using big name stars that are easily recoginized.

My final point. Before the television entered the home their were a lot of local leagues, groups and teams playing against each other. After all the only people interested were people who lived in the surrounding area. Yet once television came around the area that could view them got larger, and these groups started to disappear and merge together. Then cable came and the area grew larger and larger. On Demand and DVR made time zones irrelevant. The internet took national past times and thrusted them onto a World Stage. The more technology advances the closer our cultures grow. Which means things that were once made for an American audience are now being viewed in Japan or Germany or England. It has to be produced for mass appeal.

This seems backwards. After all the internet should allow for a more niche market. Which exist to a small extent, but the everyday person wants their product now and goes after what is most readily avalible.

TLDR: There will never be a single org due to the "evils" of capitalism and mass appeal.