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[Dork8503]

i dont believe it, maybe if it was 250,000 a fight it would be believable , but i said before i would like to see him in the ufc but i wont believe either until he is on one of the shows saying this is were i am at

[dagreat1]

Originally Posted by Soul_Edge

CroCop to the UFC would be a good thing I think. It could possibly bring in more talent and boister up the UFC HW division. In Pride all he had left was a rematch with Fedor, and possibly Big Nog. Now he has a chance to win a belt and wait till Fedor is ready to give him a rematch. He is also making big dough, he is doing what is best for him.

He also lost to Hunt. There are far better matches for him in Pride than in UFC. A rematch with Fujita would be great also as Fujita took him to the ground but ate a knee that cut him in the process and ended up stoping the fihgt, otherwise, Fujita works on him from the ground and that is not where you want to be with Fujita ontop of you.

There is no compeition int he UFC, they can have a Herring vs Cro Cop rematch but there are 10 other Pride matches that would be better fihgts than that.

[jesusatemyhotdog]

It all comes down to this: The USA has the biggest economy in the world. It is in every fighter's best interest to fight for an American promotion. Although the Japanese promotions may have paid more money in the past, the earning potential that fighters have in the US, especially with the unprecedented growth the sport is now seeing, dwarfs that of Japan.

If the UFC and MMA in general, continues to grow as it is now, Pride and K-1will not be able to come even close to the payouts that fighters could enjoy working for an American promotion.

If the American population chooses to put their money behind the UFC, it will mean the end of International promotions as we know it.

[dagreat1]

Originally Posted by jesusatemyhotdog

It all comes down to this: The USA has the biggest economy in the world. It is in every fighter's best interest to fight for an American promotion. Although the Japanese promotions may have paid more money in the past, the earning potential that fighters have in the US, especially with the unprecedented growth the sport is now seeing, dwarfs that of Japan.

If the UFC and MMA in general, continues to grow as it is now, Pride and K-1will not be able to come even close to the payouts that fighters could enjoy working for an American promotion.

If the American population chooses to put their money behind the UFC, it will mean the end of International promotions as we know it.

I dissagree, before Pride lost it's contract with Fuji TV, they were siting ontop ofthe MMA world. K-1 has very deep pockets, it is huge there in Japan, families watch K-1 on new years like we all sit down and have Thanksgiving dinner with our families in America.

Fighting in Japan will always do well in Japan via MMA and K-1, I don't know the numbers on the K-1 events but Pride sells out the Saitoma Super Arena every event in Japan and it is a 60,000 seat stadium. In 2002, the Pride Shockwave was the bigest Pride event ever, it sold out a 90,000+ seat stadium and tickets are $100, $300, and $800 (back then likely $100-$500) and that is $9,000,000 alone gate sales and that is the low end, with the expensive tickets and the way a stadium is setup with a ring, there are expensive seats all around the ring so they are probably raking in $15,000,000+ per PPV on gate sales alone.

MMA and Kickboxing in Japan is going nowhere and they make tons of money there, Pride needs a TV deal in a big way but if they are ever to crumble, that just means more money for K-1, I assure you they will be around forever.

[jesusatemyhotdog]

Originally Posted by dagreat1

I dissagree, before Pride lost it's contract with Fuji TV, they were siting ontop ofthe MMA world. K-1 has very deep pockets, it is huge there in Japan, families watch K-1 on new years like we all sit down and have Thanksgiving dinner with our families in America.

Fighting in Japan will always do well in Japan via MMA and K-1, I don't know the numbers on the K-1 events but Pride sells out the Saitoma Super Arena every event in Japan and it is a 60,000 seat stadium. In 2002, the Pride Shockwave was the bigest Pride event ever, it sold out a 90,000+ seat stadium and tickets are $100, $300, and $800 (back then likely $100-$500) and that is $9,000,000 alone gate sales and that is the low end, with the expensive tickets and the way a stadium is setup with a ring, there are expensive seats all around the ring so they are probably raking in $15,000,000+ per PPV on gate sales alone.

MMA and Kickboxing in Japan is going nowhere and they make tons of money there, Pride needs a TV deal in a big way but if they are ever to crumble, that just means more money for K-1, I assure you they will be around forever.

That is all moot. Japan may still continue to post bigger gates in the future, but as a nation, they cannot compete with the potential of the USA. The only economy in the world that comes close to the US is China and the population is four times bigger.
Apart from the payouts, the peripheral earnings that fighters can make in the US are untouchable. There is more money to be had in America. That is a simple fact of global economics.

[dagreat1]

Originally Posted by jesusatemyhotdog

That is all moot. Japan may still continue to post bigger gates in the future, but as a nation, they cannot compete with the potential of the USA. The only economy in the world that comes close to the US is China and the population is four times bigger.
Apart from the payouts, the peripheral earnings that fighters can make in the US are untouchable. There is more money to be had in America. That is a simple fact of global economics.

But without mainstream support from major television networks, it will remain the same way it is now, a healthy gain every PPV event and nice sponcerships but it will never become mainstream becuase too many people fear it and see it as a barbaric act, not a sport and changing the minds of Americans is one of the most difficult things to do. It would be accepted in other countires but in America, there is just no way in hell so as far as the potential goes, nothing mainstream will ever develp out of it IMO.

[jesusatemyhotdog]

Originally Posted by dagreat1

But without mainstream support from major television networks, it will remain the same way it is now, a healthy gain every PPV event and nice sponcerships but it will never become mainstream becuase too many people fear it and see it as a barbaric act, not a sport and changing the minds of Americans is one of the most difficult things to do. It would be accepted in other countires but in America, there is just no way in hell so as far as the potential goes, nothing mainstream will ever develp out of it IMO.

The UFC is already more mainstream than boxing, other than Oscar De Le Hoya. It is more main stream than the MLB LCS. It is more mainstream than WWE, if PPV buys are any indication. There are currently negotiations for the UFC to be shown on both HBO and NBC. It is mainstream enough that almost every State Athletic Commission has approved MMA. It is mainstream enough that the UFC has supplanted the WWE as the number one sports DVD entity. It is mainstream enough that fighters are appearing on Leno, Letterman, Conan, Kimmel, Fox News, CNN, MSNBC. It is mainstream enough that USA Today, The New York Times, and the LA Times, who are the three biggest newspapers in the US are now covering the sport. It is mainstream enough that Fox Sports Net and other regional Sports News programs cover the results.

So, I guess I do not really see the rationale for your thesis. For a sport that is no more than 13 years old, it has enjoyed more initial success and rapid ascenscion than any other sport with exception to the MLB.

[AudieMurphy1]

Originally Posted by jesusatemyhotdog

The UFC is already more mainstream than boxing, other than Oscar De Le Hoya. It is more main stream than the MLB LCS. It is more mainstream than WWE, if PPV buys are any indication. There are currently negotiations for the UFC to be shown on both HBO and NBC. It is mainstream enough that almost every State Athletic Commission has approved MMA. It is mainstream enough that the UFC has supplanted the WWE as the number one sports DVD entity. It is mainstream enough that fighters are appearing on Leno, Letterman, Conan, Kimmel, Fox News, CNN, MSNBC. It is mainstream enough that USA Today, The New York Times, and the LA Times, who are the three biggest newspapers in the US are now covering the sport. It is mainstream enough that Fox Sports Net and other regional Sports News programs cover the results.

So, I guess I do not really see the rationale for your thesis. For a sport that is no more than 13 years old, it has enjoyed more initial success and rapid ascenscion than any other sport with exception to the MLB.

they bow before the king known as the nfl!

[jesusatemyhotdog]

Originally Posted by AudieMurphy1

they bow before the king known as the nfl!

Obviously, but it took almost 60 years for the NFL to become what it is. Since its formation in 1920, it was known as a mill town sport. College football was much bigger than the NFL until the merger of the AFL with the NFL and the emergence of the marketing machine created by Pete Rozell. It was only then that the NFL began to supplant baseball as the number one sport in the US.

[Clint]

Originally Posted by jesusatemyhotdog

That is all moot. Japan may still continue to post bigger gates in the future, but as a nation, they cannot compete with the potential of the USA. The only economy in the world that comes close to the US is China and the population is four times bigger.
Apart from the payouts, the peripheral earnings that fighters can make in the US are untouchable. There is more money to be had in America. That is a simple fact of global economics.

Originally Posted by dagreat1

But without mainstream support from major television networks, it will remain the same way it is now, a healthy gain every PPV event and nice sponcerships but it will never become mainstream becuase too many people fear it and see it as a barbaric act, not a sport and changing the minds of Americans is one of the most difficult things to do. It would be accepted in other countires but in America, there is just no way in hell so as far as the potential goes, nothing mainstream will ever develp out of it IMO.

In my opinion, you are both right in your own ways. It is going to take a few more years (I would say 1 - 5) for MMA payouts in the US to become equal to Japan (when dealing with sponsors especially). Before Pride lost their TV deal they were on pretty much our equivalent on NBC and pulling ratings that put the UFC to shame. Genki Sudo has a damn shoe deal and the cost to advertise on Yoshida's Gi is close to 2 million dollars if I remember right.

I disagree though that it wil never happen in America. Peoples opions change over time and the right exposure will make MMA a legit sport to those who matter. If nothing else as the current fans in the 18-35 demographic will continue to grow older and still watch it as more fans watch it as well. Hopefully we don't have to wait for that option but it's there nonetheless.