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[Masscore]

Originally Posted by roaddawg

The problem is Silva tends to fight like his idle Roy Jones JR by keeping his guard down hoping to bait his opponent. It looks pretty when it works but its simply not a good idea against Vitor who unlike Sonnen is relentless in his striking.

If Silva gets stunned there will be no recovery time. Having a good chin is no safeguard for having your equilibrium knocked senseless. Tito has a good chin but that didn't save him from Chucks succession of strikes.

I consider Vitor Silva's most dangerous opponent to date.

You consider Vitor more dangerous then the guy that was 1:30 away from taking a dominate decision over Silva?

I think Vitor can beat Silva for sure. But history has shown that wrestlers give Silva far tougher fights then strikers.

[IceCold48]

Originally Posted by roaddawg

On the contrary he is knowledgeable about Silva's performance given they trained together for the Sonnen fight.

As far as Silva being the champion for a long time I think its safe to say hes broken down that barrier already given his title defense record.

so? what does this guy know about striking to make that assesment. he really doesnt know much about mma at all if the way he fights is any indication hes just talented.

and he basically failed as silvas training partner considering silva couldnt stop the td at all. this guy should be learning how to fight instead of assessing others.

[rivethead]

Originally Posted by end it with a left

I can understand why you guys are worried about Vitor, but to be honest I really don't think he's going to topple Silva. Silva has a solid chin he proved that to me taking so many power punches from Sonnen.

Should Sonnen's punches really be compared to Vitor's? Probably not. MMA math doesn't work, and it really, really, really doesn't work when you compare guys on opposite ends of the striking spectrum.

Originally Posted by Masscore

You consider Vitor more dangerous then the guy that was 1:30 away from taking a dominate decision over Silva?

I think Vitor can beat Silva for sure. But history has shown that wrestlers give Silva far tougher fights then strikers.

Well, yes and no. I consider Vitor more dangerous than Sonnen, but I certainly don't discount that Anderson's biggest weakness has always been grapplers. I think Vitor has an excellent chance to beat Anderson--particularly for their first fight--but that doesn't mean Okami doesn't also have a great chance to beat him, too.

For that matter, I've always said Henderson would beat Anderson in a rematch, which is why Soares and Silva lobbied so hard to not have that happen.

Originally Posted by IceCold48

so? what does this guy know about striking to make that assesment. he really doesnt know much about mma at all if the way he fights is any indication hes just talented.

and he basically failed as silvas training partner considering silva couldnt stop the td at all. this guy should be learning how to fight instead of assessing others.

I think it's funny that when the "brock-has-the-bestest-wrestling-skillses-cause-he-was-DI-champ-n-stuff" debate was still debateable, I brought up Ron Waterman before the Carwin fight. Waterman is one of the only fighters to have trained both, and he flat out said that lesnar isn't a better wrestler than Carwin. The DI-is-automatically-betterz-than-DIII crowd instantly howled with laughter because Waterman had trained Carwin more recently, and thus could not be seen as an unbiased source...but Munoz is supposed to be unbiased here, despite his current relationship with Anderson.


rh

[IceCold48]

Originally Posted by rivethead

I think it's funny that when the "brock-has-the-bestest-wrestling-skillses-cause-he-was-DI-champ-n-stuff" debate was still debateable, I brought up Ron Waterman before the Carwin fight. Waterman is one of the only fighters to have trained both, and he flat out said that lesnar isn't a better wrestler than Carwin. The DI-is-automatically-betterz-than-DIII crowd instantly howled with laughter because Waterman had trained Carwin more recently, and thus could not be seen as an unbiased source...but Munoz is supposed to be unbiased here, despite his current relationship with Anderson.


rh

brock would probably major carwin in an actual match but in mma its alot different because of strikes. amatuer wrestling and mma wrestling are two different things entirely.

D1 is better then D3 and is lightyears ahead of D2 but thats not to say that a D3 guy cant be better then a D1 guy and his skills and striking ability can make him a better more effective wrestler in mma

[YukonJordan]

Originally Posted by IceCold48

brock would probably major carwin in an actual match but in mma its alot different because of strikes. amatuer wrestling and mma wrestling are two different things entirely.

D1 is better then D3 and is lightyears ahead of D2 but thats not to say that a D3 guy cant be better then a D1 guy and his skills and striking ability can make him a better more effective wrestler in mma

Thats true but where Carwin wrestled in college isn't a good indication of his wrestling skills. He went to the best engineering school that had a wrestling program. If his passion was wrestling he would have been a force in D1.

Munoz's comments should be taken with a grain of salt if only because he's a training partner of Silva. It's a biased comment coming from a biased fighter. Nothing wrong with that but take it for what it is.

[IceCold48]

Originally Posted by YukonJordan

Thats true but where Carwin wrestled in college isn't a good indication of his wrestling skills. He went to the best engineering school that had a wrestling program. If his passion was wrestling he would have been a force in D1.

Munoz's comments should be taken with a grain of salt if only because he's a training partner of Silva. It's a biased comment coming from a biased fighter. Nothing wrong with that but take it for what it is.

scores and previous years results dictate it though since im a loser i looked through old brackets and results and carwin didnt exactly blow through d2 the way it was made out to be before the brock fight.

but yea hed be a force in d1 but he totally bullshitted his talk about his wrestling thinking no one was lame enough to look it up haha

[Sniggles]

Originally Posted by rivethead

Should Sonnen's punches really be compared to Vitor's? Probably not. MMA math doesn't work, and it really, really, really doesn't work when you compare guys on opposite ends of the striking spectrum.

rh

That's great and all if Silva comes into the fight with an injury. But you can go ahead and think it's just him aging. For Silva to go from playing with his opponents to being dominated in every aspect except BJJ means he's just getting old right? Sir, methinks you really have a vendetta against Silva because he is backed by the Dana White hype-train.

Originally Posted by rivethead

For that matter, I've always said Henderson would beat Anderson in a rematch, which is why Soares and Silva lobbied so hard to not have that happen.
rh

Henderson would only win the rematch IF he stuck to the gameplan in his first fight WHICH HE DID NOT because be believed he was a striker with accurate brickfists. Henderson lost because of mental weakness not because of the lack of his tools. That being said I would have enjoyed a Henderson rematch far more than Cote, Leites and Maia combined.

[end it with a left]

Originally Posted by rivethead

Should Sonnen's punches really be compared to Vitor's? Probably not. MMA math doesn't work, and it really, really, really doesn't work when you compare guys on opposite ends of the striking spectrum.

Well I wouldn't call it MMA math I would call it I watched him eat 4 rounds of the hardest punches Sonnen could muster while supposedly juicing and never looked like he was in trouble of going to sleep. So... you're saying after watching Brock get dropped by Carwin did you think that only Carwin could do that? If you watch GSP out grapple fitch who out grapples everyone is it not safe to assume GSP is going to out grapple everyone else?

And to Roaddawg theres was a much bigger gap in striking ability between Tito and Chuck and Silva and Belfort. So if Silva can make it through the first round and a half, kinda like Tito did, than he would win the fight cause Belfort is most likely going to be gassed. But i know it must have come off pretty confusing in my post where I said in plain english if Silva past first 7 min its his. Hence Belfort can win but I dont think he can out class Silva so bad to know him out in the first.

[DanC]

Originally Posted by roaddawg

Agreed and to be honest of all the opponents Silva has ever faced Vitor worries me the most. This is one fight that Silva better not take if hes injured prior.

Yeah man, agreed. I mean Belfort is the only guy in the division that could pose Silva some challenges in the striking department and if he gets past Belfort, he will have pretty much cleaned the division out. I mean Okami says they have 'unfinished business', but after seeing how Okami performed at 122 I really can't see him lasting 5 rounds with Silva.

[rivethead]

Originally Posted by IceCold48

D1 is better then D3 and is lightyears ahead of D2 but thats not to say that a D3 guy cant be better then a D1 guy and his skills and striking ability can make him a better more effective wrestler in mma

Originally Posted by IceCold48

scores and previous years results dictate it though since im a loser i looked through old brackets and results and carwin didnt exactly blow through d2 the way it was made out to be before the brock fight.

but yea hed be a force in d1 but he totally bullshitted his talk about his wrestling thinking no one was lame enough to look it up haha

I didn't mean to necessarily bring this up again, but I'll try to break it down. Yes, D1 is better than D3, stereotypically. But that doesn't mean that every D1 athlete is automatically going to perform better than a D3 athlete in their given disciplines.

As Yukon brought up, brock went to school to wrestle. That was his focus, where he spent most of his time/energy. Carwin did not. He went to school to get an engineering degree, to work in a field full time. His focus was split.

Personally, I've seen nothing from lesnar's wrestling that indicates he's a better technical wrestler than either Carwin or Cain. I'm not saying he's a bad wrestler. I'm saying he's a good wrestler whose size and athleticism helped him yield great results.

Originally Posted by Degenero

That's great and all if Silva comes into the fight with an injury. But you can go ahead and think it's just him aging. For Silva to go from playing with his opponents to being dominated in every aspect except BJJ means he's just getting old right? Sir, methinks you really have a vendetta against Silva because he is backed by the Dana White hype-train.

I'm still not buying 100% into the injury. First it was bruised ribs, then it was cracked ribs, in another six months, roaddog will be saying he had 5 broken ribs going into the Sonnen fight. We've already seen Anderson pull out/postpone events due to other injuries, I just don't think that if he was that debilitated that he'd have gotten into the cage. And again, much like his phantom elbow surgery; all we hear about it is Soares' mouth, and while I admit I have to guess at a lot of things, I know he's full of shit.

I actually don't have a bias against Anderson. I like Anderson. I think he's the most talented MW on the planet, his striking can be a mix of poetry and devastation, his ground game is very solid, and while his in-cage performances have occasionally been garbage, he doesn't talk shit. I just don't think he's unbeatable.

Henderson would only win the rematch IF he stuck to the gameplan in his first fight WHICH HE DID NOT because be believed he was a striker with accurate brickfists. Henderson lost because of mental weakness not because of the lack of his tools. That being said I would have enjoyed a Henderson rematch far more than Cote, Leites and Maia combined.

Yes, agreed on all counts.

Originally Posted by end it with a left

Well I wouldn't call it MMA math I would call it I watched him eat 4 rounds of the hardest punches Sonnen could muster while supposedly juicing and never looked like he was in trouble of going to sleep.

Then you don't understand what MMA math is, and that it doesn't work.
Nor do you understand what the difference between an elite striker and a non-striker is.

So... you're saying after watching Brock get dropped by Carwin did you think that only Carwin could do that? If you watch GSP out grapple fitch who out grapples everyone is it not safe to assume GSP is going to out grapple everyone else?

I'm not saying either of those things. I'm not really sure what you're talking about. You go on to talk about a gap in skills between Chuck and Tito, but you can't see a much, much bigger gap between Vitor and Sonnen?

Let me break it down for you...do you think Sonnen hits as hard or as accurately as Vitor? Does he have any type of handspeed?

rh