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[TN94z]

Originally Posted by FFFRpickup

I never once said he's medeocre.

From your original post

The UFC has always built up medeocre fighters. they did it with Franklin as champ and Now Silva

Originally Posted by RearNakedStroke

GSP may have lost a fight and may not finish everybody, but he engages everybody no matter what their game is and dominates them.

So? Anderson engages too when the fight is on it's feet and when someone gets him down. If the other fighter can't get him down, why should Silva be blamed? He is the champ, come get the champ. It's no worse than a wrestler being on top and the guy on bottom not being able to get up.

Originally Posted by kickass32

Just because GSP isn't finishing as many fights as Anderson, does that mean he isn't as dominant??? Look at the way GSP has won his last 7 fights without losing a round...he dominated those 7 fights. The last time Silva was truely dominant and looked good in the MW division was 3 years ago.
GSP finishes 62% of his fights, Silva 74%....a difference, but is it THAT significant of a difference??

No, it doesn't. He has looked good every fight IMO. The worst fight he has had is Sonnen and he submitted him with a broken rib after being on bottom the entire fight. It is a bigger difference...that's all that needs to be said. If two cars are racing and car B wins #1 spot by beating car B...it doesn't matter if it was by a tenth of second or a whole second.

Originally Posted by rivethead

He didn't. He'd already ducked both Henderson and Marquardt, and there was nobody else to duck.


I don't know that anyone has ever said he's mediocre. I've said he's not #1, and that being the third-best fighter on the planet isn't a terrible thing. I've also said his grappling is questionable. That's not mediocre, it just means that it's not at the elite level that his striking is.

How many top 5 fighters did Cote beat to get his title shot? None.
How many top 10 fighters did Cote beat to get his title shot? None.

How many top 5 fighters did Lietes beat to get his title shot? None, unless you include Marquardt virtually disqualifying himself with a powerbomb and dirty fighting and still earning a controversial split decision. How many top 10 fighters did Thales beat to earn it? Well, none, unless you count the aforementioned Marquardt. So what does that mean? It means you've got a guy who isn't anywhere close to being a solidly-ranked top 10 fighter, and he keeps enticing Anderson to grapple, but Anderson won't even entertain the idea for a heartbeat. Wouldn't you feel more confident in supporting Silva as a well rounded fighter if he was willing to beat a guy who wasn't even top 10 in all aspects of the game?


Henderson earned the rematch. It was promised to him, and then taken away because of Soares being a whiney bitch and ignorant fans being ignorant fans. The talk makes sense.


I think you're mistaking not feeling that he's #1 as hating him. Calling him #3, out of a cast of thousands is actually a pretty fucking nice thing to say.


In his entire career, Georges has lost 3 fights [if you count the first Penn one as a loss, and I do.] In that time, he's lost a total of 3 fights. Anderson has lost a total of 3 fights as well. Georges has lost a total of 5 rounds, total, [if you include round 1 in the first GSP/Kos fight, and I do] in his entire career. Anderson has lost that number of rounds just in the UFC. In their careers, Georges was highlight-reeled by Serra, an unranked fighter who was fighting above his natural weight class; effectively outstruck by a grappler he had 8 inches of reach advantage over. Anderson--already awarded a Nog-issued brown-belt at the time--was highlight reeled by Chonan, an unranked fighter [with no BJJ credentials at all] who was fighting a full class above his normal weight, and giving up 7 inches in reach.

So the "domination" factor is pretty negligible, really.

But then you need to realize that Georges has faced opponents of a much, much higher caliber than Anderson has.

rh

There is no ducking. If Dana wanted Anderson to fight them, he would have. If he ducked them, it looks like it was good reason. What has Marquardt done? What has Henderson done since? Come on..

Mediocre

The UFC has always built up medeocre fighters. they did it with Franklin as champ and Now Silva

I don't personally think he is number one, but I think he is higher than GSP.

How many fights did he win in a row before the title shot? What guys were left that Anderson hadn't already beaten before Cote got his shot?

Win streaks, win streaks. The UFC is all about win streaks win a champ has beaten everyone else in the division. Otherwise, they would be fighting the same people all of the time. The same can be said for Kos. Trigg? A bad cut Johnson? Daley? And that includes the two phantom knees. Hardy's big win was Swick. Alves beat Hughes and Kos (mentioned above). He beat a LW in BJ. I mean come on, we can do this all day with the records. You can justify anything. Anderson has shown that he is well rounded by winning with submissions and KOs. Once again, if you can't get him on the ground, that's your fault.

Henderson beat Palhares and Bisping....and then thought he was worth double so he was let go.

I'm not mistaking not being number 1 for hating....I don't think he is number one. I just made that call by the entire post.

He tapped from a heel hook that is pretty easy to get. The hardest part was just catching the leg which the smaller size actually helped in the quickness. It's not like Chonan was beating him down from the start and then submitted him. He tapped from an actual submission. GSP tapped from strikes being landed on him from a lower weight class fighter.

He has faced much higher caliber fighters in the WW division. Fighters that wouldn't win in the MW division. There is a difference. Sonnen, Maia, Cote, Irvin, Griffin, Henderson, Franklin, Marquardt, and even Leben would beat any of the fighters that GSP has beat at WW.


Like I said, you can justify anything to go in the direction you want it....that's the bad thing about arguing opinions. Let's just call all the above even in their weigh classes, okay? You still have Anderson moving up a division and winning, in dominating fashion, against heavier fighters. One of which was the ex-champ. Once GSP matches that stat, I would say that he would be ranked higher than Silva.


And before anyone calls out any names or anything. Anderson is not my favorite fighter. He is not even top 5:

BJ
GSP
Huerta
Cigano
Jones

Are my list

[rivethead]

Originally Posted by TN94z

Anderson engages too when the fight is on it's feet and when someone gets him down. If the other fighter can't get him down, why should Silva be blamed? He is the champ, come get the champ. It's no worse than a wrestler being on top and the guy on bottom not being able to get up.

There is a fundamental breakdown in your logic. You're assuming people are "blaming" Anderson for something, and that's not the case. Being #1 p4p is something that is earned, by showing well rounded skill. Not by win streaks, not by title defenses, but by showing well rounded skills.

So when Anderson doesn't jump into the guard of an unranked fighter, he's not being blamed. He's continuing to stand and strike, because that's where he's most comfortable; and he's earning credit for being a premier striker. But he's not getting credit for being well-rounded, because he's not earning credit for being well-rounded. He's raising questions about the quality of his grappling.

Furthermore, when Anderson is taken to the ground and outgrappled, the questions raised about his grappling are validated, and obviously, that can be interpreted as him not being well-rounded at all.

The worst fight he has had is Sonnen and he submitted him with a broken rib after being on bottom the entire fight.

Stop, stop, stop. I'm calling bullshit. First his ribs were just "sore," offered as an excuse for a shitty performance. Then they were "bruised" when fans gave Sonnen credit for outstriking him and outgrappling him. Now it was broken? Shit, between you and roaddog, you'll have poor Anderson submitting him from a body cast by this time next year. The guy deserves a medal for even stepping into the cage that night, doesn't he?

And whatever medical staff cleared him prefight with broken ribs should be fired, I guess.

There is no ducking. If Dana wanted Anderson to fight them, he would have. If he ducked them, it looks like it was good reason. What has Marquardt done? What has Henderson done since? Come on..

No, you come on. Ducking is ducking. A fighter gets promised a shot, and your manager whines about it while you sit by and pretend you don't speak English? Newsflash, that's ducking.

It doesn't matter what Henderson has "done since," he was promised a rematch, and Anderson and his camp balked. And more particularly, by referring to what Dan has "done since" I'm assuming you're referring to the loss to Shields...sure, Jake made his bones at WW, but I'm calling it now, if Jake sincerely moves up to MW, he not only beats Anderson, he finishes him. Anderson is simply not a great grappler. Sonnen is a great wrestler, but not a great grappler. Jake is a better grappler than either of them.

Henderson beat Palhares and Bisping....and then thought he was worth double so he was let go.

Again, no. Just like the phantom broken rib, you're completely off base here. Dan was promised a title shot, Anderson allowed Soares to whine to the point where ignorant fans were ignorant fans, and then dana pulled the rematch, because he knew it wouldn't sell any PPV's. Henderson agreed, provided he was compensated for the broken verbal contract.

You're also overlooking that if Palhares or Bisping had gotten past Henderson, Silva [and Soares] would have been more than happy to accept either of them as opponents. [And I can tell you right now, a Palhares fight would have looked like Lietes or Maia, with Anderson looking to counterstrike and refusing to do anything in the guard of yet another unranked opponent].

rh

[Sakara=Excitement]

Originally Posted by rivethead

Being #1 p4p is something that is earned, by showing well rounded skill. Not by win streaks, not by title defenses, but by showing well rounded skills.

rh

rh, People on this board are fucking idiots and will continue to be fucking idiots because if they can't clearly understand what P4P means then everything else is lost. Again...FUCKING IDIOTS.

[TN94z]

Originally Posted by rivethead

There is a fundamental breakdown in your logic. You're assuming people are "blaming" Anderson for something, and that's not the case. Being #1 p4p is something that is earned, by showing well rounded skill. Not by win streaks, not by title defenses, but by showing well rounded skills.

I can agree with that.

Originally Posted by rivethead

So when Anderson doesn't jump into the guard of an unranked fighter, he's not being blamed. He's continuing to stand and strike, because that's where he's most comfortable; and he's earning credit for being a premier striker. But he's not getting credit for being well-rounded, because he's not earning credit for being well-rounded. He's raising questions about the quality of his grappling.

I can agree with this as well. He doesn't not jump into the guard of elite grapplers.

Originally Posted by rivethead

Furthermore, when Anderson is taken to the ground and outgrappled, the questions raised about his grappling are validated, and obviously, that can be interpreted as him not being well-rounded at all.

I can see where that would come from.

Originally Posted by rivethead

Stop, stop, stop. I'm calling bullshit. First his ribs were just "sore," offered as an excuse for a shitty performance. Then they were "bruised" when fans gave Sonnen credit for outstriking him and outgrappling him. Now it was broken? Shit, between you and roaddog, you'll have poor Anderson submitting him from a body cast by this time next year. The guy deserves a medal for even stepping into the cage that night, doesn't he?

And whatever medical staff cleared him prefight with broken ribs should be fired, I guess.

This is speculation and you can only go by press releases unless you were standing beside the guy when he had x-rays or something. I think most people knew Sonnen would out grapple him. But out striking him was unusual

Originally Posted by rivethead

No, you come on. Ducking is ducking. A fighter gets promised a shot, and your manager whines about it while you sit by and pretend you don't speak English? Newsflash, that's ducking.

It doesn't matter what Henderson has "done since," he was promised a rematch, and Anderson and his camp balked. And more particularly, by referring to what Dan has "done since" I'm assuming you're referring to the loss to Shields...sure, Jake made his bones at WW, but I'm calling it now, if Jake sincerely moves up to MW, he not only beats Anderson, he finishes him. Anderson is simply not a great grappler. Sonnen is a great wrestler, but not a great grappler. Jake is a better grappler than either of them.

Look, if Henderson didn't get a rematch, that's the UFC's fault. Fighters whine all the time about fights, but they still fight them because Dana doesn't let them get out of it. If he allowed Anderson an out, that's his fault. Great wrestling can beat great grappling. But I can see this point too.

Originally Posted by rivethead

Again, no. Just like the phantom broken rib, you're completely off base here. Dan was promised a title shot, Anderson allowed Soares to whine to the point where ignorant fans were ignorant fans, and then dana pulled the rematch, because he knew it wouldn't sell any PPV's. Henderson agreed, provided he was compensated for the broken verbal contract.

You're also overlooking that if Palhares or Bisping had gotten past Henderson, Silva [and Soares] would have been more than happy to accept either of them as opponents. [And I can tell you right now, a Palhares fight would have looked like Lietes or Maia, with Anderson looking to counterstrike and refusing to do anything in the guard of yet another unranked opponent].

rh

Maybe so, again, Dana's problem.

I can see where you are coming from and you have changed my mind on some things after reading your comments. Good response!

Originally Posted by Sakara=Excitement

rh, People on this board are fucking idiots and will continue to be fucking idiots because if they can't clearly understand what P4P means then everything else is lost. Again...FUCKING IDIOTS.

Whoa, whoa, whoa! It's idiots like you that fuck up these boards. You need to watch what you say. I have been on here for a while and gave my opinions on things and try to be subjective about stuff. Just like with RH above, he made good points to prove what he was saying and to sway me on certain things. But to sit there and call me a fucking idiot because of what I said when you have about as much clue about P4P rankings as anyone on this board (because the rankings are way to dependent on too many variables that can be added or deleted) shows your ignorance.

It constantly amazes me how great one considers themselves and how high and mighty one considers themselves when they are hidden behind the monitor of a pc.

What a fucking douche!!

[FFFRpickup]

Originally Posted by Y2JUBAE

Why does anyone deserve a rematch? They lost. They had their shot, they blew it. No reason for someone to keep trying until they finally beat him, they either can or they can't. I have seen on here, people crying about how Nate deserves a rematch. Nate would get his ass busted in a rematch. Who deserves one either? Nobody has even came close to beating him other than a juiced up Chael.

The fact that he beats everyone is all the proof you need. GSP just beat Koz again after he beat him before. Big deal. What did that prove? Do we really need to see Cote get a rematch?

I just don't get the whole "he doesn't give rematches, beats them and moves on" thing. Seems like that's how it's supposed to go.

First off I think re matches are very important. A true cahmpion welcomes rematches. Fighters evolve and I believe A Silva is leary about that. Ed Soares is Silva's voice and it screams "OH he doesn't deserve me...Oh not him, he's nobody...I'm too dominate of a champion to fight him again". He is a dominant champion in a weak division and when somebody puts on a good fight the rematches seem to dissipate. How convenient for him!
Ed Soares doesn't just say what he wants to..he confers with his client..A Silva. So I take it as Silva saying what Soares says. That's sad. All this talk about how he has a higher knockout ratio than gsp. SO what. Gsp is more Dominant than Silva and to do it in rematches is even more incredible. Would Silva still be champion if he fought Hendo, Marquardt, and Sonnen again? Not even going to metnion Vitor....Twice? If he can do that than I'd put him ahead of Gsp. But that will never happen and A Silva will simply Dominate Decent fighters and not elite fighters. That's why he's #3 on the list....and probably move to #4 or #5 when Aldo has a few more fights udner his belt.

[Sakara=Excitement]

Originally Posted by TN94z

Whoa, whoa, whoa! It's idiots like you that fuck up these boards. You need to watch what you say. I have been on here for a while and gave my opinions on things and try to be subjective about stuff. Just like with RH above, he made good points to prove what he was saying and to sway me on certain things. But to sit there and call me a fucking idiot because of what I said when you have about as much clue about P4P rankings as anyone on this board (because the rankings are way to dependent on too many variables that can be added or deleted) shows your ignorance.

It constantly amazes me how great one considers themselves and how high and mighty one considers themselves when they are hidden behind the monitor of a pc.

What a fucking douche!!

Hmmm, I forgot that I put your name with what I was saying which trust me, I have no problem with doing (i.e. WillPunisher, Pashak, Roaddawg at times). So go ahead and get all butt hurt over something that wasn't directed towards you. I'm sure you'll come back and say but I did direct it towards you but trust me, I'm not.

At least ask if someone is talking about you before you go all psycho. If you want to continue this little chat, let me know.

[TN94z]

Originally Posted by Sakara=Excitement

Hmmm, I forgot that I put your name with what I was saying which trust me, I have no problem with doing (i.e. WillPunisher, Pashak, Roaddawg at times). So go ahead and get all butt hurt over something that wasn't directed towards you. I'm sure you'll come back and say but I did direct it towards you but trust me, I'm not.

At least ask if someone is talking about you before you go all psycho. If you want to continue this little chat, let me know.

In the order of the posts and and the fact that RH had just replied to what I was saying, and you used a quote of his that he used to reply to me, it is very easy to think it was directed at me. I am not "butt hurt", I just felt that was out of line considering the quality of posts that I have here. I usually don't post unless I have something descent to say.

With that being said, I am a big enough man to admit when I was wrong. So if that was not directed to me, then I sincerely apologize. And no, I won't come back and say that if it's not true. Maybe I should have asked, but with the same token, it was very bad timing on your part especially by not calling out a name.

Either way, it is what it is. I'm cool, but we can continue if you would like

[FFFRpickup]

Originally Posted by FFFRpickup
I never once said he's medeocre.

From your original post
Quote:
The UFC has always built up medeocre fighters. they did it with Franklin as champ and Now Silva


I meant the fighters that Silva fights are built up..not Silva. He's scary good. at #3 p4p.

[captonion]

P4P rankings are for the birds.

[TN94z]

Originally Posted by FFFRpickup

Originally Posted by FFFRpickup
I never once said he's medeocre.

From your original post
Quote:
The UFC has always built up medeocre fighters. they did it with Franklin as champ and Now Silva


I meant the fighters that Silva fights are built up..not Silva. He's scary good. at #3 p4p.

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