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[dgil]

Originally Posted by Sakara=Excitement

That is a pretty legit list right there. What about these?

- Hughes chokes out Almedia (Although Hughes doesnt have a black belt, he sure should)
- Urijah Faber choking out Assuncao.
- Jim Miller taps out Oliveria (I know Miller is a black belt but Oliveria had so much hype behind him and Miller tapped him fairly easily)

I am still devastated about this.

[beau420]

Joe Warren vs Bibiano Fernandes...we all knew he could get subbed....but I didn't think it would only take 42 seconds...and Joe has nearly been submitted at least a dozen times since then.

Melvin Manhoef fights are the same to me.

Melvin vs Tatsuya Mizuno was probably one of the biggest submission upsets of the year to me (probably just behind Chael) I didn't think it couldn't happen, but during the fight, I thought Mizuno was done (just like Anderson) but then out of no where....submission.

Same throughout Melvins whole career. I guess they aren't huge upsets, but definitely a huge turnaround/180 during the fight.

Nick Diaz vs. Hayato Sakurai....I was really surprised Nick made his submission look so easy in under 4 minutes....took him like under 40 seconds on the ground.

I wouldn't put Sakuraba vs Miller but I would Kazushi Sakuraba vs. Zelg Galesic....Sakuraba was done....blood leaking from his eyes, ears, nose and mouth all within the first minute, but he still pulled off the submission.

Jim Miller vs. Charles Oliveira was an upset in a bunch of my friends eyes...I wasn't that surprised, but I was surprised it only took under 2 minutes.

Leben vs Akiyama....Leben triangle, while he was in Zombie mode, with just 20 seconds left in the fight....that was huge.

Lesnar arm triangle on Carwin...I never thought Lesnar by submission was going to be the outcome of that fight. (apart from submission to punches)

Tim Kennedy submitting Trevor Prangley who had never been submitted 30 fight career dating back to 2001....that was kinda surprising.

Kazuo Misaki vs Jorge Santiago 1 and 2....Jorge getting the submission with about a minute and a half left in the 5th round in their first fight....and Misaki's corner throwing in the towel in their 2nd fight. Crazy insane fights.

Jorge Masvidal getting reverse triangled by Toby Imada...didn't see that coming.

I did not see Hideo Tokoro submitting Abel Callum. I didn't think Abel would have so much trouble on the ground.

Joachim Hansen getting armbarred with 4 seconds left in the fight against Shinya Aoki...that shit surprised me. I thought he had Aoki beat...and in his attempt to finish the fight, he got submitted. He could have ridden out the last 20 seconds, but he didn't and he got submitted.

There were so many memorable turn around submissions where one fighter pulls a 180 and it has happened in so many organizations.

[Dr. MMA]

Originally Posted by beau420

Joe Warren vs Bibiano Fernandes...we all knew he could get subbed....but I didn't think it would only take 42 seconds...and Joe has nearly been submitted at least a dozen times since then.

Melvin Manhoef fights are the same to me.

Melvin vs Tatsuya Mizuno was probably one of the biggest submission upsets of the year to me (probably just behind Chael) I didn't think it couldn't happen, but during the fight, I thought Mizuno was done (just like Anderson) but then out of no where....submission.

Same throughout Melvins whole career. I guess they aren't huge upsets, but definitely a huge turnaround/180 during the fight.

Nick Diaz vs. Hayato Sakurai....I was really surprised Nick made his submission look so easy in under 4 minutes....took him like under 40 seconds on the ground.

I wouldn't put Sakuraba vs Miller but I would Kazushi Sakuraba vs. Zelg Galesic....Sakuraba was done....blood leaking from his eyes, ears, nose and mouth all within the first minute, but he still pulled off the submission.

Jim Miller vs. Charles Oliveira was an upset in a bunch of my friends eyes...I wasn't that surprised, but I was surprised it only took under 2 minutes.

Leben vs Akiyama....Leben triangle, while he was in Zombie mode, with just 20 seconds left in the fight....that was huge.

Lesnar arm triangle on Carwin...I never thought Lesnar by submission was going to be the outcome of that fight. (apart from submission to punches)

Tim Kennedy submitting Trevor Prangley who had never been submitted 30 fight career dating back to 2001....that was kinda surprising.

Kazuo Misaki vs Jorge Santiago 1 and 2....Jorge getting the submission with about a minute and a half left in the 5th round in their first fight....and Misaki's corner throwing in the towel in their 2nd fight. Crazy insane fights.

Jorge Masvidal getting reverse triangled by Toby Imada...didn't see that coming.

I did not see Hideo Tokoro submitting Abel Callum. I didn't think Abel would have so much trouble on the ground.

Joachim Hansen getting armbarred with 4 seconds left in the fight against Shinya Aoki...that shit surprised me. I thought he had Aoki beat...and in his attempt to finish the fight, he got submitted. He could have ridden out the last 20 seconds, but he didn't and he got submitted.

There were so many memorable turn around submissions where one fighter pulls a 180 and it has happened in so many organizations.

I think you may have misinterpreted the reasoning behind the thread. It wasn't which upsets surprised you in terms of a comeback or how quick they got it. It has more to do with the clearly less credible ground fighter getting the submission on a higher calibre submission/BJJ martial artist. Some of the ones you mentioned like Melvin Manhoef's fights, Chael/Anderson, Bibiano/Warren, Saku/Galesic, Lesnar/Carwin, Hansen/Aoki, Miller/Oliveira were more of "oh shit I thought he was done" or "oh shit didn't expect it to finish that fast", but the bottom line is in all of those, the better ground fighter or the similarly skilled ground fighter won.

Leben/Akiyama though is a clear example of the worse ground fighter upsetting the better one.

[initial_zen]

id have to say cole miller tapping out grugel has to take the cake for me... he was only a purple belt at the time, wtf.

[CHAEL fan]

Elvis Sinosic subbing Jeremy Horn....a major wtf?

[Sakara=Excitement]

Originally Posted by CHAEL fan

Elvis Sinosic subbing Jeremy Horn....a major wtf?

Doesn't Elvis have a Black belt and his strong suit is the ground?

[Xanatos]

Originally Posted by Sakara=Excitement

Doesn't Elvis have a Black belt and his strong suit is the ground?

Not to mention it's Jeremy Horn. Not taking anything away from what he's done in the sport. But it's Jeremy Horn

[Dr. MMA]

Originally Posted by CHAEL fan

Elvis Sinosic subbing Jeremy Horn....a major wtf?

Originally Posted by Sakara=Excitement

Doesn't Elvis have a Black belt and his strong suit is the ground?

Originally Posted by Xanatos

Not to mention it's Jeremy Horn. Not taking anything away from what he's done in the sport. But it's Jeremy Horn

I wouldn't say Sinosic subbing Horn is a major wtf. As Sakara=excitement mentioned, Sinosic has some legit skills on the ground and its his strong suit. I remember when he faced Tito, people were saying that Tito shouldn't shoot and take him down because he may get submitted by Sinosic, a BJJ black belt. We all know that wasn't the case.

Xanatos, Horn is no slouch on the ground though, although he's known more for his catch wrestling. He may have got submitted by the likes of Lister, Marquardt and Sinosic, but he went to a decision with Palhares (who I thought was going to finish him for sure), Nogueira, Arona and Babalu. As you know those guys are legit submission machines. Also, we have to remember that although Horn has over 100 fights, he has nearly 60 submissions.

Originally Posted by initial_zen

id have to say cole miller tapping out grugel has to take the cake for me... he was only a purple belt at the time, wtf.

Yeah it was pretty big. Frank Mir was also a purple belt when he submitted Roberto Traven, a black belt. That was an even bigger upset than Miller/Gurgel because Traven is so decorated---he won multiple tournaments and won the open/absolute weight ADCC title in 1999.

Gurgel is an embarrassment to BJJ... not because he got submitted but because he abandoned it.

[beau420]

Originally Posted by Dr. MMA

I think you may have misinterpreted the reasoning behind the thread. It wasn't which upsets surprised you in terms of a comeback or how quick they got it. It has more to do with the clearly less credible ground fighter getting the submission on a higher calibre submission/BJJ martial artist. Some of the ones you mentioned like Melvin Manhoef's fights, Chael/Anderson, Bibiano/Warren, Saku/Galesic, Lesnar/Carwin, Hansen/Aoki, Miller/Oliveira were more of "oh shit I thought he was done" or "oh shit didn't expect it to finish that fast", but the bottom line is in all of those, the better ground fighter or the similarly skilled ground fighter won.

Leben/Akiyama though is a clear example of the worse ground fighter upsetting the better one.

Alright then.

Joe Doerksen vs CB Dolloway....Doerkson a black belt and Dolloway a blue belt....CB modified guillotine.

Travis Lutter getting guillotined by Matt the Law Lindland....sure Lindland is an amazing wrestler with gorilla strength, but Lutter is a black belt and Lindland is not.

Lindland subbing Carlos Newton in the IFL. Lindland is obviously very strong and knowledgeable on the ground but doesn't care so much for the belts.

Thales Leites getting subbed by new black belt Matt Horowich in August of this year...didn't see that coming....but Thales didn't have the aggression or stamina that the dirty hippy did.

Thiago Alves in his UFC debut going up against Spencer Fisher and getting triangled.

Drew Fickett submitting both Derrick Noble and in his last fight submitting Carlo Prater.

Shogun Rua getting RNC'd by Forrest Griffin....sure Forrest is a black belt but didn't get the belt until November 2010....Shogun had his black belt from back in 2005

José "Pelé" Landi-Jons getting armbarred by Carlos Newton back at Pride 19 before....Pele was bigger and had way more BJJ experience compared to Newton.

Gegard Mousasi triangling Denis Kang back in 2008 at DREAM 2

Dennis Kang also getting subbed by Alan Belcher...brown belt subbing black belt.

Black Belt Evangelista "Man Cyborg" Santos getting keylocked by Judo practitioner Kazuhiro Nakamura back in 2006 at PRIDE Critical Countdown Absolute

One of the most recent UFC BJJ upsets (as others have mentioned) was when Matt Hughes choked Renzo Gracie student and 3rd degree Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu black belt Ricardo Almeida unconscious via anaconda choke.

There have been a lot and there will be a ton more.

[Repenter]

mma is a very different sport from bjj, and a lot of these subs aren't that surprising when put into context. case in point: hughes dropped almeida, then sprawled out on him on the ground. a guy with the wrestling experience of hughes clearly had the advantage, black belt or not.

i remember when faber subbed assuncao, he had been keeping a far superior pace and controlling the fight on the feet and with his wrestling. when he got assuncao to the ground in that scramble, he very clearly had the upper hand.

i've heard some people say that martin kampmann positionally tooling paulo thiago on the ground was surprising, but you have to remember that kampmann was both A) beating the living piss out of thiago on the feet, and B) is a much better grappler than his belt status (purple i believe), would suggest.


i've been training bjj for a few years, and these little things always play into the context of a match. i'm a relson gracie blue belt who rolls with purple belts much of the time, pretty successfully i might add. if i get paired up with a judo black belt or college-level wrestler who's a bjj white belt, i know that they'll certainly have the upper hand in certain situations, regardless of the belt differential... and i'll force myself to be more cautious and take fewer risks. and if we were punching each other in the face the whole time? you see where i'm going with this...