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[H33LHooK]

Originally Posted by bottlerocks

Couldn't disagree less. When did Frankie do anything remotely comparable? Josh is out of commission until mid-2011.

I was comparing styles, not results- - although you'll notice that both fights did end in unanimous decisions.

Both fighters used confusing movement, efficient striking, and timely/selective take-downs to win their decisions.

.

[rivethead]

Originally Posted by Xanatos

I was wondering when this good post would turn south.

Penn outstruck him, he stuffed something like 10 to 1 takedown attempts, he held the center of the octagon while Edgar played stick and move. That's an illustration that Penn had more effective striking, aggression, and octagon control. Simple equations that are roundly overlooked.

Edgar clearly beat him in the second fight. Penn didn't learn anything from the first fight, where Frankie did. Penn didn't come in with any type of fight plan, Edgar clearly did.

But there is no way in hell Frankie could reasonably be said to have won the first fight. Edgar is an outstanding fighter, he's underrated, and I have him top 10 p4p. But he didn't win that first fight.

rh

[Xanatos]

Originally Posted by rivethead

Penn outstruck him, he stuffed something like 10 to 1 takedown attempts, he held the center of the octagon while Edgar played stick and move. That's an illustration that Penn had more effective striking, aggression, and octagon control. Simple equations that are roundly overlooked.

Edgar clearly beat him in the second fight. Penn didn't learn anything from the first fight, where Frankie did. Penn didn't come in with any type of fight plan, Edgar clearly did.

But there is no way in hell Frankie could reasonably be said to have won the first fight. Edgar is an outstanding fighter, he's underrated, and I have him top 10 p4p. But he didn't win that first fight.

rh

Nah that's cool, you just seemed to go from analytical to surly. I've only watched that fight twice, when it happened, and the next day during the shit storm that ensued on this site. I wanted to see it again before I stood behind Edgar, and I still had Edgar winning. But it was a really close fight, and when it's that close, I'm never upset with the outcome.

Being a Penn fan, an Edgar fan, and an mma fan, These were both pretty good fights

[noahm]

I think part of the reason nobody cares is he is just kind of an average guy with no real persona. I think psychologically, he is just average frat-boy looking american kid to most people and so the fight might be there, but the personal attachment just isn't there for a lot of people. Not to mention his fighting style isn't particularly conclusive or memorable from a damage point of view, just quick and jerky, like watching a sparring match.

[carbondioxide830]

even though he beat my man bj (twice), i'm still not impressed. i'm not sour at all either as i'm more than willing to admit that he dominated penn in the 2nd fight (i still the first fight was a screw job). in that case though, i think it was a case of the cliche "styles make fights." even w/ all his tools and raw talent, penn's style was a bad match up for edgar.

whatever hype there is around frankie i think will die a slow, 25 minute death on january 1st anyway.

[dgil]

I care about Frankie.

[CtGreat]

Originally Posted by KillahKimbo

Dominick Cruz?

I dont trully care to see Frankie fight, but i actually love to see Cruz fight. I dont know why, but he just seems much more interesting than Frankie; I love his awkward fighting style.

[carbondioxide830]

Originally Posted by CtGreat

I dont trully care to see Frankie fight, but i actually love to see Cruz fight. I dont know why, but he just seems much more interesting than Frankie; I love his awkward fighting style.

dude you took the words out of my mouth. i dont care to see frankie fight either...i mean that can always change, but i cant remember not wanting to see cruz fight as i've been a fan of him for a few years now.

neither one finish fights and it's arguable as to who puts on the more exciting fights, but theres something about cruz that makes me want to tune in...i guess it could be his elusiveness.

[goodtimes]

Originally Posted by bottlerocks

Couldn't disagree more. When did Frankie do anything remotely comparable? Josh is out of commission until mid-2011.

That's the first time GSP hurt an opponent in a long time, and I'm sick of people showing a 4 sec clip or a blown up pic and using that as proof for one point or another. Edgar and GSP have as close to identical styles as two fighters can get, and a pic of Koscheck's broken orbital doesn't change that. It's not like GSP lands bone crushing jabs on a regular basis; that's the only time he's really hurt an opponent badly besides Sherk. It was more that Kos stepped into a stiff jab which landed perfectly on the orbital in the beginning of the fight, and eating jabs all night made it all the worse.

I think the main difference between Edgar and GSP is that GSP's style has radically changed because of his 2 losses. Most of his fans remember him for his exciting battles with Hughes, Serra, and the first fight with Penn. How he dominated guys in the first round moving up through the rankings in a relatively weak divison.

Edgar, on the other hand, has always had a stick and move boxing style. His grappling is very fast paced with lots of transitions, but he's not an active GnPer and he doesn't pull off slick submissions. When a guy is not very dangerous off his back, Edgar shoots. When he feels like he has a distinct striking advantage, he picks them apart. He has gotten very good at making opponents think he's going to strike when shoots and shoot when he strikes. The main difference between GSP and Edgar is I think Edgar relies more on feints and misdirection while GSP relies more on speed and athleticism, while they both end up with similar results. I think Edgar is a really athletic guy, but he does not have the same kind of size that GSP has in his respective division.

Looking at their skills technically, I like Edgar better, I think his 2 fights with Penn proved so much as Penn is such a complete fighter and is a good size for 155, whereas GSP has not really fought anyone as complete that was close to his size. When GSP beat Penn, I didn't really think he had a significant skill advantage, it just looked like he was good enough that the extra 20 or so pounds was too much for Penn to overcome. I really think GSP's best days are ahead of him, he really really needs to move to 185. He would be smaller, but he is incredibly fast and he's strong enough to do it, and that's where the fights will be that will convince everyone that he is the greatest.

[The Return Of......]

Originally Posted by rivethead

Penn outstruck him, he stuffed something like 10 to 1 takedown attempts, he held the center of the octagon while Edgar played stick and move. That's an illustration that Penn had more effective striking, aggression, and octagon control. Simple equations that are roundly overlooked.

Edgar clearly beat him in the second fight. Penn didn't learn anything from the first fight, where Frankie did. Penn didn't come in with any type of fight plan, Edgar clearly did.

But there is no way in hell Frankie could reasonably be said to have won the first fight. Edgar is an outstanding fighter, he's underrated, and I have him top 10 p4p. But he didn't win that first fight.

rh

agreed in that the first fight was a horrible dec and that edgar clearly won the second fight

you mention didnt learn anything and edgar did. i think the problem for penn was 2 fold. one he was sick, two he himself believed it was a screwball dec. that being said he figured without the sinus infection dragging him down that he runs through edgar. which probably would of been true had edgar not improved

what impresses me the most about edgar is he was well aware of what happend in the first fight and he made damn sure it didnt happen in the second fight. i do believe penn could beat edgar if he got his head into the fight. bj has all the talent in the world. edgar has talent, although im not sure he has as much natural talent as bj he makes up for it in training and game planning which proves, to me anyway, just how important those parts are to mma

i really hope frankie beats maynard next weekend. although i think maynard would be an easier match should penn ever get another title shot.

i also believe frankie will be maynard. i know gray controlled him with wrestling last time, but the second bj fight shows me that edgar can adapt and grow quickly and learn from fights. if he can learn from a win im pretty sure he can learn what he did wrong from a loss.

honestly though, what excites me the most, and kinda throws out the whole maynard would be a better match up is that the winner gets pettis. personally i wanna see edgar fight pettis and henderson. both to me just scream one hell of a FOTN. combine the wec fight with the next to ufc fights at 55 and it could bring the division to the top of the ufc as far as the top division (formally lhw although hw is giving it a run for its money with shogun out now) its ironic cuz it was just what 5ish years ago that the division was not even a weight class in the ufc anymore until the sherk florian title fight