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[CJRockstar]

If you don't feel like reading, this is my main Idea...

My point here is that certain people have this illusion that fighting would be better without wrestling, but no 2 wrestlers are the same. You wouldn't be abolishing one style, you'd be abolishing a whole mess of styles.

I just had something to add to the discussion about wrestlers that I thought was relevent because I read a piece the other day about why wrestling is bad for MMA and it kinda irked me.

Wrestling as a martial art is very different. Look at all the different fighters that are wrestlers, no two fighters have the same wrestling styles. It is because when they come into MMA each one of them takes different parts of their wrestling game and molds it into their striking and possibly submission game. You have some guys that have a powerful driving takedown, some guys that go for ankle picks and single legs, and some guys that wait in the guard and reverse and sweep and manipulate your body in ways you don't want.

My point here is that certain people have this illusion that fighting would be better without wrestling, but no 2 wrestlers are the same. You wouldn't be abolishing one style, you'd be abolishing a whole mess of styles. You can argue that some guys have a more boring style of wrestling, well that is their fault and it's probably going to bite them in the ass come contract re-up day.

You can say some guys styles are similar but if you really break them down they aren't. Brock Lesnar's wrestling is different from Chael's, and they are both different from Carwin(who hardly uses his really), who are all different from GSP's wrestling, and they are all different from Cain's who hardly uses his either, and they all are different from your Guida's and your Maynard's and your Coleman's.

Look at somebody like Jason Brilz, who hardly even had a name then came in against somebody that was supposed to just straight up destroy him in Little Nog and used his wrestling to nearly pull off the upset. How exciting would that fight of probably been crap in a bag without the wrestling vs. Jiu Jitsu aspect that it had.

I really just wish that ignorant people wouldn't be allowed to write shitty articles about MMA because they are biased like that. I guess that's enough ranting.

What are your guys takes on wrestling? Like it, Hate it, Love it, don't really care?

[megamus]

wrestling is a skill just like striking or submissions and is part of mixed martial arts. If a guy can take you down at will and control where the fight is then too bad. no matter how boring some may think it is, it takes a lot of skill to do that. if you just want to see guys stand up and trade then watch some K1. i get real tired of seeing guys complain about wrestlers, they use their skill set to win fights. not every fight will end in highlight reel fashion, sometimes it is a chess match nutralizing other fighters strengths and thats ok. stop crying about lay'n'pray, maybe guys should work on their grappling skills to avoid it.

[TheKidInside]

no one has ever said that it would make MMA better...IN FACT IT WOULDN'T MAKE IT F-ING MMA!!!

[jody]

I see why you posted though.Even here on the forum you got guys bitching about"Lay n Pray."Which to me means maybe they outta watch some kickboxing and get the hell outta hereNah,wrestling may not always be the most exciting,but if you thoroughly enjoy fighting,at least for me,the only thing I hate is two big outta shape heavyweights throwing tired ass punches at each other,in between bending over to breathe.

[CJRockstar]

Originally Posted by jody

I see why you posted though.Even here on the forum you got guys bitching about"Lay n Pray."Which to me means maybe they outta watch some kickboxing and get the hell outta hereNah,wrestling may not always be the most exciting,but if you thoroughly enjoy fighting,at least for me,the only thing I hate is two big outta shape heavyweights throwing tired ass punches at each other,in between bending over to breathe.

I usually will only bitch when a guy spends the better part of a whole round injured hugging a guys leg in a fake attempt at a single leg takedown. Ref's really should do something about that, because he isn't REALLY trying for a takedown and is just stalling for his life. It is normally not something most people can get out of because they bury their head into your hip area, so it becomes a long, boring stalemate and most ref's will let this go on for MINUTES at a time, then the guy gets rocked AGAIN and it happens AGAIN!

Lay and Pray comes in different forms really. You've got the guys that really just hold you down and don't do much, just enough to not allow a standup. Then you have guys that lay on you cuz they are hurt and are just trying to recouperate. I like the idea of a guy trying to get his faculties back to pull out a win, but the refs still allow this to go on for too long during fights. If you just have a regular fight of 15 minutes, spending 8 or 9 minutes leg humping is just a little uncalled for (guida vs. Diaz).

I won't bitch about it normally, because my ass would probably do the same thing if my bell was rung, but in 'certain circumstances' guys will do this when they aren't hurt, and thats just lame. You laying on a guy for 15 minutes just because 'you can' just asserts the homoxexuality claim of the naysayers of MMA.

I like the way this discussion is going. Keep it up.

[Chillzone]

Originally Posted by CJRockstar

I won't bitch about it normally, because my ass would probably do the same thing if my bell was rung, but in 'certain circumstances' guys will do this when they aren't hurt, and thats just lame. You laying on a guy for 15 minutes just because 'you can' just asserts the homoxexuality claim of the naysayers of MMA.

"Naysayers" who say the wrestling aspect is homosexual are probably homophobes who get boners watching fighters wrestle. Homosexuality is an invalid argument against Wrestling in MMA.

[jody]

I hate when it gets stood back up too soon too.I have seen a lot of that lately(well with what little time I have to watch anymore).

Yeah I'm not big on guys taking advantage to pass time.But when I see people bitch about a GSP type of wrestler...I mean,he grinds on his opponents,constantly working.So what if he doesn't always finish?That just means you got to see more mma

My problem is with the ref more often than with the fighter.If the ref allowed me to dry hump my foe without actually improving position,looking for the kill,I'd probably go for it,especially if I'm a UFC fighter,the way fighters are so readily dismissed for a loss.

But I guess from the other side of the coin,the guy on bottom is in the fight too,and if he can't do anything to get the guy off of him,it's kinda his problem.

I'm with you on the milking the recovery.I think if I were a ref and saw a guy get rocked and then grab a leg,I'd give him what I would deem a reasonable amount of recovery time,then I'd let him know,you gotta improve your spot or I'm squaring you off again.

[megamus]

Originally Posted by CJRockstar

I usually will only bitch when a guy spends the better part of a whole round injured hugging a guys leg in a fake attempt at a single leg takedown. Ref's really should do something about that, because he isn't REALLY trying for a takedown and is just stalling for his life. It is normally not something most people can get out of because they bury their head into your hip area, so it becomes a long, boring stalemate and most ref's will let this go on for MINUTES at a time, then the guy gets rocked AGAIN and it happens AGAIN!

Lay and Pray comes in different forms really. You've got the guys that really just hold you down and don't do much, just enough to not allow a standup. Then you have guys that lay on you cuz they are hurt and are just trying to recouperate. I like the idea of a guy trying to get his faculties back to pull out a win, but the refs still allow this to go on for too long during fights. If you just have a regular fight of 15 minutes, spending 8 or 9 minutes leg humping is just a little uncalled for (guida vs. Diaz).

I won't bitch about it normally, because my ass would probably do the same thing if my bell was rung, but in 'certain circumstances' guys will do this when they aren't hurt, and thats just lame. You laying on a guy for 15 minutes just because 'you can' just asserts the homoxexuality claim of the naysayers of MMA.I like the way this discussion is going. Keep it up.

you could flip it and and say that it is lame that a guy has no skills on the ground enough to attempt a submission off his back or get his lazy ass to his feet....a man asserting his dominance through control has nothing to do with homosexuality and anyone who says so is either ignorant of the sport or uncomfortable with their own sexuality.

[CJRockstar]

Originally Posted by megamus

you could flip it and and say that it is lame that a guy has no skills on the ground enough to attempt a submission off his back or get his lazy ass to his feet....a man asserting his dominance through control has nothing to do with homosexuality and anyone who says so is either ignorant of the sport or uncomfortable with their own sexuality.

the thing with submissions and getting off your back is, GOOD wrestlers know positions where there aren't really many options other than weather the storm and wait for an opportunity. Especially with heavyweights like Roy Nelson who blobs over you to the point where you have no room to move or transition to anything other than acceptance. Just depends on the guy really. Can you get up from most positions on the ground yes, but the heavier the weight class the more energy is going to be expended doing that, which will lead to zombie cage hugging and effortless single leg takedown attempts. It can be a double edged sword.

[Xanatos]

I don't think anybody on this forum actually believes taking wrestling out of mma is a good thing, or that they encourage or want that to happen.

And if there are people like that here than their opinion shouldn't be taken seriously anyways.