Hendo and Shogun to Hospital;[Winner] Tweets for Title Shot - Page 4

Punk Ass · 11-21-2011, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masscore

Henderson should not have to fight anyone for a shot at the Jones/Machida winner. Whether you agree with the decision or not, no one is arguing that Shogun WON. They are only arguing he deserved a draw. So IMO at this moment there is no point for a rematch. Hendo is 4-0 in his last 4 and 7-1 in his last 8. Shogun is 4-4 in his last 8. Shogun at the moment does not deserve a rematch with Hendo. He had his chance on Saturday night to beat him and at best would have walked away with a draw. Would I love to see a rematch, yes I would it was an amazing fight. But Hendo has done his part in earning a shot at the title without having to fight anyone else.

Also if you scored the 5th round 10-8 then you need to at least consider that the 3rd round was 10-8 for Hendo.

IMO, I dont even think it was a draw. I think a huge Shogun fan would obviously argue the point, but but Hendo hit Shogun with the type of shit that could may fuck his career up. He destroyed Shogun for the first 3 rounds and gassed himself. They only problems is, even in the 4th and 5th, Shogun had nothing on his punches. He basically had a dead hendo in the mount the whole 5th round and couldnt summon the energy to do any significant damage at all. I dont consider that a 10-8 round. It's almost the same as if someone lay and prayed a whole round. He won the round easy, but IMO, you have to do significant damage to get a 10-8.

I scored the fight 48-46 with hendo getting one round 10-8 do to nearly killing Shogun.

dbader08 · 11-21-2011, 07:04 AM

Only hardcore Shogun fans? You mean Jon Jones (who had shogun winning), Dana White, and at least half of Sherdog and this site)?

Bullshit. Shogun almost knocked him down with that uppercut in the 4th and landed plenty of hard punches. Not hard enough to knock him out but they definitely didnt "not have anything on them". And you need to check up on judging criteria because dominating someone in the grappling department over the coarse of a round should be considered a 10-8 round...not to mention 26 sig strikes and 80 total strikes in the 5th compared to 8 for Hendo which were almost all while he was mounted.

Don't forget that Shogun also knocked hendo down in the 1st and landed some hard punches of his own. He also got the takedown in the 3rd and easily won the last half of the round so Shogun's 5th round should easily be considered a 10-8 before Henderson's 3rd.

Shogun left that fight with more fight in him. Hendo is lucky the fight ended when it did. Hendo is the man but I think Shogun proved that he is just a little bit tougher.

Masscore · 11-21-2011, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbader08

Nah, Shogun took Hendo down in the 3rd round and won the rest of the round. Hendo dominated him for about 25 seconds but other than that it was even and Shogun won the last half of the round.

In the 5th, Shogun COMPLETELY dominated Henderson for the entire 5 minutes. Look at Shoguns losses, though. One to Machida which was total bullshit, one to Jones who would absolutely destroy Dan Henderson imo and who is a way, way, way, way, way tougher of a fight than Fejiao and Babalu combined, and the one to Hendo which should have been a draw. He looked like shit against Forrest but that was back in 06 man, he hasn't been the most active due to his knee surgeries. Plus he avenged that loss in brutal fashion, and their first fight was an awesome fight too.

How can you knock Shogun for that fight? Henderson was the one who had to have 2 people help him leave the octagon, was the one who could do nothing but survive the last round. Shogun was the one who had more fight left in him in the end, which is what really matters. Sure, round by round, you can make a case for hendo winning, but imo a draw makes more sense, but you can't deny that SHOGUN was the one who had more fight in him at the end.

I am not knocking Shogun for that fight. It was a great fight. But at the end of the day he did not do enough. Cool he dominated ONE round of a five round fight. And Hendo was much closer to stopping Shogun in the 3rd then Shogun was to stopping Hendo in the 5th. Yes Shogun has mount and was doing some damage from the the top but never did anyone really think the fight was going to be stopped. There were moments in the 3rd when people where on their feet thinking the end was near. So if you are going to score the 5th 10-8 for Shogun then the 3rd is 10-8 for Hendo.

But at the end of the day it comes back to the same thing. Hendo did enough to win and Shogun only did enough to get a draw.

I am not opposed to them having a rematch at all and I hope it happens one day. But only after Hendo gets his title shot against the Jones/Machida winner.

dbader08 · 11-21-2011, 07:11 AM

I disagree. 25 seconds including a knockdown and some great ground and pound, followed by Shogun getting the takedown and winning the rest of the 3rd is not as substantial of 5 minutes of complete domination. Dana White said so himself lol haha. Disagree and your a homosexual.

Like how in the FUCK does one judge score Bonnar-Kingsburry 30-25 but not give shogun a FUCKING 10-8 when he did way way way more than Bonnar did...It just goes to show you how subjective scoring can be...and, well, how stupid some judges can be.

Either way I don't think anyone would dispute that Shogun does not get knocked down the latter at all, hell if anything he moves up a bit. Kudos to hoping there is a rematch. Hendo is 41 though which sucks but I'm pretty sure he will fight til he's 43 or so so it should happen.

Punk Ass · 11-21-2011, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbader08

Bullshit. Shogun almost knocked him down with that uppercut in the 4th and landed plenty of hard punches. Not hard enough to knock him out but they definitely didnt "not have anything on them". And you need to check up on judging criteria because dominating someone in the grappling department over the coarse of a round should be considered a 10-8 round...not to mention 26 sig strikes and 80 total strikes in the 5th compared to 8 for Hendo which were almost all while he was mounted.

Doing nothing to significantly hurt a fighter should not be a 10-8 round but that's just IMO. Now giving you the benefit of the doubt, as Masscore said, if you give the last round to Shogun, than you have to give the (I think the second round) to hendo because Shogun alomost got KO'd. In fact, in Boxing any time you have a knock down a point is deducted from fighter even on flash knock downs. What Hendo did was no flash knockdown. He knocked Shogun senseless and IMO should have got a 10-8. Either way, Hendo should have won IMO.

Quote:

Don't forget that Shogun also knocked hendo down in the 1st and landed some hard punches of his own. He also got the takedown in the 3rd and easily won the last half of the round so Shogun's 5th round should easily be considered a 10-8 before Henderson's 3rd.

He did(edit:I meant to say didnt) rock Hendo though from what I remember. I think hendo was more off balence than anything. Hendo was more hurt in the when Shogun clipped him in the 4th.

Quote:

Shogun left that fight with more fight in him. Hendo is lucky the fight ended when it did. Hendo is the man but I think Shogun proved that he is just a little bit tougher.

This I agree with, but leaving a fight with more gass doesnt win you the match. winning more rounds than you opponent, does.

dbader08 · 11-21-2011, 07:40 AM

Luckily for mma fans harlem did not invent the mma judging criteria. You have to consider how physically exhausting it is to be mounted for 5 minutes, struggling to work your way to guard only to be force back into being mounted, while eating 80 punches over that time period. You can't just throw the rest of Shogun's 3rd round out the window because he had a horrible 25 seconds. Shogun completely dominated the 5th, and in my opinion had a more decisive 4th round than Hendo's 1st 2 rounds, but definitely not a 10-8 but still worth noting...

This is not boxing though. It is much easier to score a knockdown in mma with 4 ounce gloves. Plus that rule is there partly so guys don't go down purposely to give them time to recover.

SWIFTboy · 11-21-2011, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masscore

Henderson should not have to fight anyone for a shot at the Jones/Machida winner.

I think you could put him against Rashad for a #1 contender fight but I don't think you can just leapfrog him over Rashad.

Unless Rashad is injured long enough where Jones is looking for a fight and they take the next person in line they way they just did with Machida.