MMA News Forums » MMA Forums » General MMA Forum

[K1NG P3NN]

This will be a great fight IF it happens. Two completely different styles, but it will probably be the stand up that will decide. I just hope Mir does what he did to Kongo, knock him on ass then sub him.

[goodtimes]

Skipped a page of posts, but it seems like most people think this fight will be competitive. Am I the only one who thinks Mir gets blown out of the water like he did against Lesnar and Carwin? Imo Mir has no chance; he'll get clinched, kneed and punched till he wilts, and finished with GnP.

[carbondioxide830]

i see it being a pretty competitive fight and a damn good main event fox cinco de mayo. cain takes it tho which sux cuz i'm a big mir fan and hate to see him lose.

[beau420]

Originally Posted by goodtimes

Skipped a page of posts, but it seems like most people think this fight will be competitive. Am I the only one who thinks Mir gets blown out of the water like he did against Lesnar and Carwin? Imo Mir has no chance; he'll get clinched, kneed and punched till he wilts, and finished with GnP.

People also forget that a lose affects fighters differently.

Cain had never lost before.....let alone embarassed in the cage.

Before losing to JDS, Cain had never taken a 13 month break.

A lot of firsts for Cain.

As for Mir. He has lost, he comes back strong.

Brock and Carwin are huge, and Cain is big, but a good 20-30 pounds less than Brock and Carwin. Mir is bigger than Cain.

Now, Mir hasn't beated too many wrestlers...apart from the submission on Brock and more recently, his fight with Roy Nelson.

Mir did also submit Kongo very quickly...and Kongo's takedown defence over the past 2 years has been underrated. But Kongo is so inconsistent.

I don't think Cain has the confidence or the size to destroy Mir. I think he will be very tentative and afraid to fuck up as bad as he did as in the JDS fight.

I don't see him reaching for his punches and don't see him overextending and being overly aggressive.

I just hope Cain fights before May.....because I would like to see him try and fight 3 times this year.

Mir is an intelligent fighter and is very experienced. I could see him trying to jump on Cain from the start....whether it would work or not.....who knows...but I think Cain vs Mir could be a good fight. And I think Cain destroying or taking any HW out in the first 5 minutes is doubtful. I predict a slow grappling affair.

I think Travis Browne vs Cain (instead of Browne vs Griggs) at the end of March would be sweet. An easier fight for Cain against a guy who still has a perfect record.

[lwbrewer]

I like Mir but if Cain is his old self I don't like Mirs chances at all. Though subbing even a half Nog is a pretty dam good submissionist if you ask me so maybe he can catch Cain?

[goodtimes]

beau, I like your points about the potential effects on Velasquez's psychology, but I would characterize those under unknown variables. I've been saying this since his 2nd fight with Lesnar; Mir has some of the worst clinch work in MMA, and he does not defend himself properly when in the clinch or on the ground. He puts submission attempts above blocking punches, even when there are no submissions to go for. I am looking at this as scientifically as possible; when a guy has been able to push Mir around, they always dominate him unless he catches a hail mary sub. And while Mir is a big HW, he's not a strong one. He had so much trouble trying to bully Cro Cop and Nelson, he totally looked like crap doing it, and those guys are probably the 2 smallest framed HW's out there and should have fought at LHW. The fact that Big Nog was able to press him against the cage and batter him, when Nog is not known for that style of fighting at all is very telling.

Velasquez might be smaller, but not by the margins you claim. Velasquez started off in the UFC pretty small but lately he's been pretty consistently 250 lbs, only a little smaller then Mir. However, in terms of wrestling technique and functional strength, Velasquez should have an insurmountable edge.

Going back to Mir's weakness in the clinch; if people don't believe me just look at how his fights have gone.

vs. Big Nog; he gets pressed up against the cage and badly hurt by Nog's dirty boxing, pulls off a miraculous sub when Nog abandons the GnP that was about to stop Mir and goes for a guillotine.

vs Roy Nelson; tries to bully him, has some success but overall a very poor performance by both fighters. Nelson obviously did not have the cardio to work that kind of fight.

vs Cro Cop; tries to bully him, not getting anywhere despite having a 30 lb weight advantage. Very poor performance by both guys, Cro Cop opens up and gets caught by a knee.

vs Carwin; Carwin shoots, Mir sprawls, Carwin easily bullies him against the cage, Mir continues to try to defend the takedown even though Carwin has gotten him in a dirty boxing clinch. Carwin lands some clean uppercuts and puts Mir away easily.

vs Kongo; Mir lands his first punch of the fight, hurts Kongo and subs him. Imo his only good performance since 2008.

vs Lesnar 2; Lesnar takes him down easily, lays on top of him and Mir offers up no defense off of his back and eats punches the entire 1st round. 2nd round, Lesnar easily bullies Mir to the cage, Mir goes for some retarded flying knee and gets taken down because of it and pounded out. After the fight, Lesnar says he was surprised how easy it was to control Mir on the ground, and that all of his training partners can work there way out of that head lock from half guard that he held Mir in for pretty much the entire 1st round.

vs Nog 1; puts a boxing clinic on Nog, very impressive and a lot of ppl jumped on his bandwagon after this. I thought he looked great here, but he's never been able to replicate this performance.

vs Lesnar 1; gets taken down at will, dropped by a cross, and thoroughly pummeled. For some reason Lesnar decides to stand up in Mir's guard and gets caught in a knee bar. Totally rookie mistake, Lesnar should have won the fight easily and he makes up for it in the rematch.

Don't want to go over every single one of his fights, but up to this point he has 3 losses. A knee from the clinch against Vera; GnP from Marcio Cruz because he overcommits to a submission; GnP from Ian Freeman because he overcommits to a submission.

So basically what I'm saying is, if someone gets a hold of Mir and can land a few punches, as long as they can avoid the submissions they will be able to pound him out. Velasquez's strength is getting a hold of someone and beating on them. Stylistically, Mir has pretty much no chance.

[beau420]

Originally Posted by goodtimes

beau, I like your points about the potential effects on Velasquez's psychology, but I would characterize those under unknown variables. I've been saying this since his 2nd fight with Lesnar; Mir has some of the worst clinch work in MMA, and he does not defend himself properly when in the clinch or on the ground. He puts submission attempts above blocking punches, even when there are no submissions to go for. I am looking at this as scientifically as possible; when a guy has been able to push Mir around, they always dominate him unless he catches a hail mary sub. And while Mir is a big HW, he's not a strong one. He had so much trouble trying to bully Cro Cop and Nelson, he totally looked like crap doing it, and those guys are probably the 2 smallest framed HW's out there and should have fought at LHW. The fact that Big Nog was able to press him against the cage and batter him, when Nog is not known for that style of fighting at all is very telling.

Velasquez might be smaller, but not by the margins you claim. Velasquez started off in the UFC pretty small but lately he's been pretty consistently 250 lbs, only a little smaller then Mir. However, in terms of wrestling technique and functional strength, Velasquez should have an insurmountable edge.

Going back to Mir's weakness in the clinch; if people don't believe me just look at how his fights have gone.

vs. Big Nog; he gets pressed up against the cage and badly hurt by Nog's dirty boxing, pulls off a miraculous sub when Nog abandons the GnP that was about to stop Mir and goes for a guillotine.

vs Roy Nelson; tries to bully him, has some success but overall a very poor performance by both fighters. Nelson obviously did not have the cardio to work that kind of fight.

vs Cro Cop; tries to bully him, not getting anywhere despite having a 30 lb weight advantage. Very poor performance by both guys, Cro Cop opens up and gets caught by a knee.

vs Carwin; Carwin shoots, Mir sprawls, Carwin easily bullies him against the cage, Mir continues to try to defend the takedown even though Carwin has gotten him in a dirty boxing clinch. Carwin lands some clean uppercuts and puts Mir away easily.

vs Kongo; Mir lands his first punch of the fight, hurts Kongo and subs him. Imo his only good performance since 2008.

vs Lesnar 2; Lesnar takes him down easily, lays on top of him and Mir offers up no defense off of his back and eats punches the entire 1st round. 2nd round, Lesnar easily bullies Mir to the cage, Mir goes for some retarded flying knee and gets taken down because of it and pounded out. After the fight, Lesnar says he was surprised how easy it was to control Mir on the ground, and that all of his training partners can work there way out of that head lock from half guard that he held Mir in for pretty much the entire 1st round.

vs Nog 1; puts a boxing clinic on Nog, very impressive and a lot of ppl jumped on his bandwagon after this. I thought he looked great here, but he's never been able to replicate this performance.

vs Lesnar 1; gets taken down at will, dropped by a cross, and thoroughly pummeled. For some reason Lesnar decides to stand up in Mir's guard and gets caught in a knee bar. Totally rookie mistake, Lesnar should have won the fight easily and he makes up for it in the rematch.

Don't want to go over every single one of his fights, but up to this point he has 3 losses. A knee from the clinch against Vera; GnP from Marcio Cruz because he overcommits to a submission; GnP from Ian Freeman because he overcommits to a submission.

So basically what I'm saying is, if someone gets a hold of Mir and can land a few punches, as long as they can avoid the submissions they will be able to pound him out. Velasquez's strength is getting a hold of someone and beating on them. Stylistically, Mir has pretty much no chance.

Good points. Rep'd if I could

But as you described, Cain should be able to handle Mir in the clinch....but Cain has also showed a lack in striking power and Kongo was able to out clinch and out strike Cain in the clinch. It took Kongo dropping Cain for Cain to work the double leg multiple times during the fight.

I think one thing you don't want to do is give Cain a fight that is too tough.

Because if he loses another fight....and if he loses in the first couple minutes, it completely ends any shot at the title for the next few years.

He is hugely marketable to latinos and I think the UFC wants to keep him near the top.

I predict Cain gets matched up against the winner or loser of Werdum vs Roy Nelson or if Brandon Schaub or Mike Russow or Travis Browne wins their fights....could be any of them.