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[joeodd2]

TRT, Roids, Supplements will never help a fighter beat a legitimately skilled fighter. Doesn't matter what condition you are in, unless these drugs can prevent you from getting choked out, make your limbs like rubber, or prevent you from getting knocked out; then there is no real advantage. These guys who use it, lose all the time. Like I said it's an excuse used by fighters who lose and/or who don't have the skills to hang with the elite of the elite. Fedor beat juicers all the time in pride. It doesn't matter, as long as you have the better skills. I'm tired of fighter whining about this issue, stop "grinding out" fights as a strategy for victory and you won't have to worry about who's using what to make themselves stronger.....

[beardown98]

Originally Posted by joeodd2

TRT, Roids, Supplements will never help a fighter beat a legitimately skilled fighter. Doesn't matter what condition you are in, unless these drugs can prevent you from getting choked out, make your limbs like rubber, or prevent you from getting knocked out; then there is no real advantage. These guys who use it, lose all the time. Like I said it's an excuse used by fighters who lose and/or who don't have the skills to hang with the elite of the elite. Fedor beat juicers all the time in pride. It doesn't matter, as long as you have the better skills. I'm tired of fighter whining about this issue, stop "grinding out" fights as a strategy for victory and you won't have to worry about who's using what to make themselves stronger.....

How does being able to train harder, longer, recover from injury and soreness associated from working out and training not give someone a competitive edge or advantage over some one who doesn't.

A great fighter may still beat a good fighter that is cheating but what about the average fighter that uses becomes good and beats a clean above average fighter. How is that fair to the clean fighter? If not for cheating the chances of the average fighter beating the above average Are lower are they not?

It makes me think of baseball and all the cheating. There are and were many good players that became great because they cheated. sure there was natural talent there but it was augmented to be great through unethical means.

[joeodd2]

Here's the "dirty little secret".

We just don't want to find out....

We want the best fights, the big Knockouts, the slick submissions, the fights of the night and year. But we don't want to find out they are "cheating". They have so much pressure to win and perform, on top of that train to the point that they eventually begin to destroy their own bodies. But we don't care as long as we BELIEVE they are clean. When a fighter loses, no one gives them slack because they were sick or had an injury. So if people really believe PED's are a problem, then I ask you this.....Who created that monster? The fighter or the fans? I personally don't care, fight and entertain me. What happens to your body is your business. I think most people feel this way, but don't like to admit it.....

[RearNakedStroke]

Originally Posted by joeodd2

TRT, Roids, Supplements will never help a fighter beat a legitimately skilled fighter. Doesn't matter what condition you are in, unless these drugs can prevent you from getting choked out, make your limbs like rubber, or prevent you from getting knocked out; then there is no real advantage. These guys who use it, lose all the time. Like I said it's an excuse used by fighters who lose and/or who don't have the skills to hang with the elite of the elite. Fedor beat juicers all the time in pride. It doesn't matter, as long as you have the better skills. I'm tired of fighter whining about this issue, stop "grinding out" fights as a strategy for victory and you won't have to worry about who's using what to make themselves stronger.....

I disagree. just look at Cyborg. That was like watching a guy beat up a girl. A roided up guy holds the same advantage over a clean guy.

[RearNakedStroke]

Originally Posted by joeodd2

Here's the "dirty little secret".

We just don't want to find out....

We want the best fights, the big Knockouts, the slick submissions, the fights of the night and year. But we don't want to find out they are "cheating". They have so much pressure to win and perform, on top of that train to the point that they eventually begin to destroy their own bodies. But we don't care as long as we BELIEVE they are clean. When a fighter loses, no one gives them slack because they were sick or had an injury. So if people really believe PED's are a problem, then I ask you this.....Who created that monster? The fighter or the fans? I personally don't care, fight and entertain me. What happens to your body is your business. I think most people feel this way, but don't like to admit it.....

We enjoy a sport. If the athletes aren't good enough to cut it they need to find another job. Some of the "athletes" use PEDs because the reward greatly outweighs the risk. The punishment needs to be much, much stronger.

[Transworld]

I think a lot of athletes in many sports are using PED's. I just think they are good at cycling what they use.

[CtGreat]

Originally Posted by joeodd2

TRT, Roids, Supplements will never help a fighter beat a legitimately skilled fighter. .....

no, just no. Being stronger and faster are legitimate advantages, it's not cosmetic like having a fresh coat of paint on a car. if 2 people are equally skilled, but one is faster and stronger, then that person is more likely to win.

[noahm]

TRT is a very slippery slope for two reasons:

It is very easy to find a doctor who will prescribe it regardless of your condition (just look at all of the people getting their medical marijuana and how many actually have a "serious illness" as they are supposed to).

Secondly, testosterone levels are all over the place in regular people, decline with age etc., but as a 40-something athlete, you are allowed to replace to "normal" levels. Since nobody can agree what normal is, it leaves it open for some serious misuse especially in older athletes.

The other thing that irks me the most is that one common factors causing the low T in the first place is previous PED use.

I am not saying that there might not be legitimate medical need for it (outside of competitive sports), but since there is so much room for abuse it should just not be allowed at all and tough sh*% to the few that "need" it. Find another career and use it all you want to keep yourself medically sound.

[Esox Express]

Originally Posted by noahm

TRT is a very slippery slope for two reasons:

It is very easy to find a doctor who will prescribe it regardless of your condition (just look at all of the people getting their medical marijuana and how many actually have a "serious illness" as they are supposed to).

Secondly, testosterone levels are all over the place in regular people, decline with age etc., but as a 40-something athlete, you are allowed to replace to "normal" levels. Since nobody can agree what normal is, it leaves it open for some serious misuse especially in older athletes.

The other thing that irks me the most is that one common factors causing the low T in the first place is previous PED use.

I am not saying that there might not be legitimate medical need for it (outside of competitive sports), but since there is so much room for abuse it should just not be allowed at all and tough sh*% to the few that "need" it. Find another career and use it all you want to keep yourself medically sound.

All good points here. People tend to argue that athletes are using TRT for legitimate medical reasons. The thing is, guys like Chael, Hendo, Couture, etc. are all taking it to rejuvenate their career, not because f a legitimate medical condition. People who truly need TRT never develop normal test levels and thus begin the therapy during puberty. If all the guys in MMA who are on TRT have a legitimate medical need for TRT beyond aging then there is an absurdly higher-than-average percentage of fighters who are affected by this disease compared to the normal population (hypogonadism affects less than one percent of the population).

It isn't a condition that just magically shows up when you hit 40. Bodies naturally decrease their testosterone production as they age. It is just a part of aging that happens to everyone and TRT is only artificially extending these fighters' careers.

[goodtimes]

Originally Posted by RearNakedStroke

I disagree. just look at Cyborg. That was like watching a guy beat up a girl. A roided up guy holds the same advantage over a clean guy.

Ya it's sad to go back and see what she did to those other women with those unnatural muscles. I mean you can even look at Overeem vs Lesnar or Rogers, how he manhandled those enormous guys is incredible.

TRT helps guys rejuvenate careers that are diminishing. The human body is supposed to have decreased testosterone levels as one ages. I'm still on the fence about this; I think if a guy provides documented proof that he maintains his testosterone within reasonable levels I guess TRT makes sense. If it lets an older man continue to make a living while entertaining the fans (like Hendo has done), it's hard for me to see it as a bad thing.

On the other hand, guys like Marquardt and Sonnen who got busted for having way too high test levels and acted like they did nothing wrong, that really bothers me and makes me think most people who use TRT are abusing it.