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[rivethead]

Originally Posted by rampage9712

You want to say how Jones is without his reach. You mine as well take away GSP's double leg or Anderson's coordination.

I'd say take away Georges' or Anderson's size advantages before I'd start talking about skills that they work to develop. Relative to their weight classes, they each have the same size advantages people talk about with Jones.

Dan has always been very hard to Submit. It is another quality that made him a legend. Shields had him on his back for round after round and couldnt get an injured/gassed hendo.

Offhand, I'd say he's harder to KO than he is to submit. Call me crazy.

Originally Posted by Rocky>Fedor

Are you joking or are you serious? Coming from you I am afraid that you are serious.

He's serious. 100%.

Remember when you talked about him being unintentionally hilarious?

rh

[roaddawg]

Originally Posted by goodtimes

To be fair, Machida killed Evans striking, Shogun out struck Machida, and Hendo out struck Shogun. Ya it is MMA math, but Hendo's striking ability is so underrated. Bisping is a skilled stick and move fighter, maybe more so then Jones, and Hendo made him look like an amateur.

Hendo's striking has improved pretty drastically, he turned a corner in the fight with Bisping. Out of all of the guys Jones has fought, Hendo is the most legitimate KO artist. Rampage and Evans both have good power, but they haven't really shown much ability to land with big power in years. Machida was doing very good standing, he just didn't have the wrestling to deal with Jones' clinch and he got destroyed by the first elbow Jones landed.

Honestly, I think this fight is 10x more interesting then Jones/Evans. Hendo will show up to fight, win or lose.

To be fair all the names you mentioned excluding the obvious got their asses handed to them. As Rampage found out power without contact is useless.

Did you learn anything at all from watching Tyson fight Lewis/Foreman Vs Ali, Lesnar Vs Cain, Silva Vs Belfort, Page Vs Jon Jones*, Rashad vs Jon Jones?

Listen man Jones is going to use his incredible reach advantage to tag Henderson. Everytime Henderson tries to get up close hes going to evade him or push him off. If Henderson isn't getting peppered with jabs and elbows then hes getting his legs side kicked all night.

Henderson will try his best but he is getting sub'd or elbowed until the referee rules a TKO (just like everyone else).

Originally Posted by rivethead

I'd say take away Georges' or Anderson's size advantages before I'd start talking about skills that they work to develop. Relative to their weight classes, they each have the same size advantages people talk about with Jones.

Yup but you don't hear many people critisizing Jones for his physical advantage like you hear with Silva. Somehow he is being considered to be the greatest mma fighter to ever grace the earth with his presence.

Atleast Silva has moved up a weight class and proven he can beat someone with similiar physical attributes.

[CtGreat]

Originally Posted by roaddawg

Yup but you don't hear many people critisizing Jones for his physical advantage like you hear with Silva. Somehow he is being considered to be the greatest mma fighter to ever grace the earth with his presence.

You are fooling yourself If you honestly believe that....Jones "ridiculous" size advantage is mentioned in every single topic about Jone Jones. I would wager that the majority of people here attribute Jone's success to his reach advantage, you included.

[roaddawg]

Originally Posted by CtGreat

You are fooling yourself If you honestly believe that....Jones "ridiculous" size advantage is mentioned in every single topic about Jone Jones. I would wager that the majority of people here attribute Jone's success to his reach advantage, you included.

I always point it out because thats all I ever heard in regards to Silva. People were quick to say, "Yea he is only successful because hes taking easy fights" siting that he would never belong to any p4p list due to his size advantage.

Yet Jones is given a pass. People like Massacore actually thinks Jones is the best fighter in MMA. It actually pisses me off to be honest about it especially when you take into account that his reach advantage dwarfs Silvas.

[cpac77]

Originally Posted by roaddawg

I always point it out because thats all I ever heard in regards to Silva. People were quick to say, "Yea he is only successful because hes taking easy fights" siting that he would never belong to any p4p list due to his size advantage.

Yet Jones is given a pass. People like Massacore actually thinks Jones is the best fighter in MMA. It actually pisses me off to be honest about it especially when you take into account that his reach advantage dwarfs Silvas.

Silva is undoubtedly the most dominant UFC champion to date, but his road to his current status would have been far easier compared to Jones' road to legendary status.

Silva has beaten a lot of 185ers, and holds a lot of very impressive records. I don't doubt one bit that he could hold his own at 205, but if Anderson joined the UFCs LHW division way back when he joined the UFCs MW division we wouldn't be talking about him like he's possibly the best P4P fighter of all time. I'm not claiming to know whether or not he would have been able to run through the division like he did at 185. I'm making the point that when he joined the UFC, he chose the 185 road instead of the 205 road. I'm not blaming him one bit. At that time, the 205 division was kind of stacked relative to that time period and the 185 division didn't have a lot of marketable world class fighters. He made an incredibly intelligent business decision and today he is an incredibly wealthy man as a result. Is Silva one of the greatest UFC champions of all time? Yes. Is he the most dominant? Yes (because dominant refers to dominance within your weight class). Is he the best P4P today? No. Best P4P ever? No.

To me, P4P means open weight rankings. Guess what, Junior Dos Santos would beat the living shit out of almost every fighter in his weight class and every fighter in every other weight class. Why? Because he hits like a freaking dump-truck. He hasn't been taken down yet in the UFC so his TD defense is probably pretty good. He hasn't had to defend subs or attack with subs, so he's probably OK in that department too. He has trained BJJ with the Nogs for years, just saying. Could Junior sub Maia? No but he could knock him the fuck out very quickly.

Whats my point? The great big guy ALWAYS beats the great little guy.

GSP owned Penn. GSP would beat the shit out of Penn 99 out of 100 times. I don't care that Penn was able to tag GSP's face a few times over half a decade ago. That fight was that other 1 out of the hundred. GSP still won.

Remember the GSP vs Spider talk? Anderson would crush GSP, first or second round TKO. Likely second round because GSP would be his usual super classy and respectful self while promoting the fight. If GSP talked crap, Silva would render him unconscious in round one. If you really believe something else would be more likely to happen, your perception needs an upgrade.

Now that we have a guy at 205 who has been able to cool off the hot potato, all the p4p talk goes to Spider vs Jones. Guess what people, Jones would fucking crush Silva. First of all, I love Spider Silva the fighter and the media personality. It hurts me to say this but Jones would own him. 99 times out of 100. Spider has all but maxed out his MMA potential. We've already seen him at his best. And he has been at his best for a long time. And his best is better than just about everyone else's best. Not Jones' best though. When Jones' has invested as many years into training as Spider has, this is when we as fans will know exactly where Jonny Bones ranks amongst all others (p4p, open weight, whatever). The timing of these open weight fights is EVERYTHING with regards to their relevance towards deciding who is/was better.

If Bones fought Spider 1.5 years ago, Spider stands a very good chance to win. If Bones fights Spider right now, slight edge to Bones due to his maturation and gained experience (highest profile, potentially 5 round, title fights). If Spider fights Bones 1.5 years from now, Bones would have a considerable advantage assuming he continued to train and invest as much of himself in improving himself as he has over the past 3-5 years. Reason I say this is, after more time passes it is reasonable to assume that Bones would have fixed these holes in his defensive game that come up frequently in this and similar discussions. If more time than that passes, the less likely Spider would fight Bones dimply due to Spider's unavoidable and eventual retirement from competing inside the octagon and Bones' eventual move to HW provided that he cleans out 205 [after Hendo, 1-3 more fights and the division would be cleaned out; at Bones' current fight pace he could clear out the division before 2013 is over].

Anderson isn't going to fight Jones though. Ever. Why? Because as Jones gets bigger, and better... nobody is going to want to see him fight a smaller older guy regardless of that guy's legend [doesn't get much better than Anderson's mind you]. Anderson is probably going to steamroll Sonnen in the first round, maybe fight another guy or two at 185 and then retire as the Jerry Rice of the 185ers.
*sidenote for you Sonnen fans who'll be quick to point out how Sonnen outstruck Silva in their first fight: That isn't happening again. Ever. Carve that in stone. Sonnen had lightning in a bottle that night and still couldn't take the belt away from the champ. Wouldn't have even mattered if he did because he got caught cheating and was suspended following that bout. He would have been stripped and the contest would have been declared NC.

Meanwhile, Bones will defeat Hendo and a one or two other guys he hasn't fought yet in addition to one or two guys that he already defeated once before. Then Bones will have no choice but to move up to HW.

I believe JDS will still be the king of the HWs, and the people will want Bones vs JDS. If that fight happens guess what. Who fucking knows? This fight could be/would be the best/biggest ever.

Jones could hold his own vs any HW right now. Win? Maybe, maybe not. But after Jones unlocks more of his MMA potential and uses the LHW division as his guinea pigs, he will be able to go up to HW and not just hold his own, but steamroll some poor clown before getting a shot at the HW belt.

The top 3 guys in the world right now in any weight are JDS, Bones, and Mir. Cain is probably 4th, Anderson 5th. Why? Because I think Cain would defeat Spider if they fought today, that's why. It wouldn't surprise me if Spider KO'ed Cain in the first round though. It wouldn't surprise me if Spider KO'ed Mir in the first round either. It wouldn't surprise me if Spider KO'ed Jones in the first round. It WOULD surprise me very much if Spider KO'ed Junior ever. It's going to surprise me if anyone KO's JDS lol.

Oh that's right, this thread is about Hendo and his boxing vs Bones. Uh, really? Hendo doesn't really try to stop guys from taking him down. Unless Bones does things drastically different in training and in the actual fight, he's probably going to take his opponent to his perceived weak area after feeling him out in round one and end the fight there. Jones does the same thing that GSP does as far as strategy is concerned, Jones is just better at putting on fights that entertain a wider variety of MMA fans. Dan's area of weakness is obviously being on his back, defending submissions. So after Jones circles away from Dan's power and turns parts of his face and body different colors for 5 minutes, he'll come out in round two looking for the takedown and BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM Hendo will shock the world! Just kidding. Bones will get the takedown rather easily, and proceed to sub/choke asleep Hendo.

[roaddawg]

^^ Well said and no arguments.

[sproggy]

Originally Posted by cpac77

Silva is undoubtedly the most dominant UFC champion to date, but his road to his current status would have been far easier compared to Jones' road to legendary status.

Silva has beaten a lot of 185ers, and holds a lot of very impressive records. I don't doubt one bit that he could hold his own at 205, but if Anderson joined the UFCs LHW division way back when he joined the UFCs MW division we wouldn't be talking about him like he's possibly the best P4P fighter of all time. I'm not claiming to know whether or not he would have been able to run through the division like he did at 185. I'm making the point that when he joined the UFC, he chose the 185 road instead of the 205 road. I'm not blaming him one bit. At that time, the 205 division was kind of stacked relative to that time period and the 185 division didn't have a lot of marketable world class fighters. He made an incredibly intelligent business decision and today he is an incredibly wealthy man as a result. Is Silva one of the greatest UFC champions of all time? Yes. Is he the most dominant? Yes (because dominant refers to dominance within your weight class). Is he the best P4P today? No. Best P4P ever? No.

To me, P4P means open weight rankings. Guess what, Junior Dos Santos would beat the living shit out of almost every fighter in his weight class and every fighter in every other weight class. Why? Because he hits like a freaking dump-truck. He hasn't been taken down yet in the UFC so his TD defense is probably pretty good. He hasn't had to defend subs or attack with subs, so he's probably OK in that department too. He has trained BJJ with the Nogs for years, just saying. Could Junior sub Maia? No but he could knock him the fuck out very quickly.

Whats my point? The great big guy ALWAYS beats the great little guy.

GSP owned Penn. GSP would beat the shit out of Penn 99 out of 100 times. I don't care that Penn was able to tag GSP's face a few times over half a decade ago. That fight was that other 1 out of the hundred. GSP still won.

Remember the GSP vs Spider talk? Anderson would crush GSP, first or second round TKO. Likely second round because GSP would be his usual super classy and respectful self while promoting the fight. If GSP talked crap, Silva would render him unconscious in round one. If you really believe something else would be more likely to happen, your perception needs an upgrade.

Now that we have a guy at 205 who has been able to cool off the hot potato, all the p4p talk goes to Spider vs Jones. Guess what people, Jones would fucking crush Silva. First of all, I love Spider Silva the fighter and the media personality. It hurts me to say this but Jones would own him. 99 times out of 100. Spider has all but maxed out his MMA potential. We've already seen him at his best. And he has been at his best for a long time. And his best is better than just about everyone else's best. Not Jones' best though. When Jones' has invested as many years into training as Spider has, this is when we as fans will know exactly where Jonny Bones ranks amongst all others (p4p, open weight, whatever). The timing of these open weight fights is EVERYTHING with regards to their relevance towards deciding who is/was better.

If Bones fought Spider 1.5 years ago, Spider stands a very good chance to win. If Bones fights Spider right now, slight edge to Bones due to his maturation and gained experience (highest profile, potentially 5 round, title fights). If Spider fights Bones 1.5 years from now, Bones would have a considerable advantage assuming he continued to train and invest as much of himself in improving himself as he has over the past 3-5 years. Reason I say this is, after more time passes it is reasonable to assume that Bones would have fixed these holes in his defensive game that come up frequently in this and similar discussions. If more time than that passes, the less likely Spider would fight Bones dimply due to Spider's unavoidable and eventual retirement from competing inside the octagon and Bones' eventual move to HW provided that he cleans out 205 [after Hendo, 1-3 more fights and the division would be cleaned out; at Bones' current fight pace he could clear out the division before 2013 is over].

Anderson isn't going to fight Jones though. Ever. Why? Because as Jones gets bigger, and better... nobody is going to want to see him fight a smaller older guy regardless of that guy's legend [doesn't get much better than Anderson's mind you]. Anderson is probably going to steamroll Sonnen in the first round, maybe fight another guy or two at 185 and then retire as the Jerry Rice of the 185ers.
*sidenote for you Sonnen fans who'll be quick to point out how Sonnen outstruck Silva in their first fight: That isn't happening again. Ever. Carve that in stone. Sonnen had lightning in a bottle that night and still couldn't take the belt away from the champ. Wouldn't have even mattered if he did because he got caught cheating and was suspended following that bout. He would have been stripped and the contest would have been declared NC.

Meanwhile, Bones will defeat Hendo and a one or two other guys he hasn't fought yet in addition to one or two guys that he already defeated once before. Then Bones will have no choice but to move up to HW.

I believe JDS will still be the king of the HWs, and the people will want Bones vs JDS. If that fight happens guess what. Who fucking knows? This fight could be/would be the best/biggest ever.

Jones could hold his own vs any HW right now. Win? Maybe, maybe not. But after Jones unlocks more of his MMA potential and uses the LHW division as his guinea pigs, he will be able to go up to HW and not just hold his own, but steamroll some poor clown before getting a shot at the HW belt.

The top 3 guys in the world right now in any weight are JDS, Bones, and Mir. Cain is probably 4th, Anderson 5th. Why? Because I think Cain would defeat Spider if they fought today, that's why. It wouldn't surprise me if Spider KO'ed Cain in the first round though. It wouldn't surprise me if Spider KO'ed Mir in the first round either. It wouldn't surprise me if Spider KO'ed Jones in the first round. It WOULD surprise me very much if Spider KO'ed Junior ever. It's going to surprise me if anyone KO's JDS lol.

Oh that's right, this thread is about Hendo and his boxing vs Bones. Uh, really? Hendo doesn't really try to stop guys from taking him down. Unless Bones does things drastically different in training and in the actual fight, he's probably going to take his opponent to his perceived weak area after feeling him out in round one and end the fight there. Jones does the same thing that GSP does as far as strategy is concerned, Jones is just better at putting on fights that entertain a wider variety of MMA fans. Dan's area of weakness is obviously being on his back, defending submissions. So after Jones circles away from Dan's power and turns parts of his face and body different colors for 5 minutes, he'll come out in round two looking for the takedown and BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM Hendo will shock the world! Just kidding. Bones will get the takedown rather easily, and proceed to sub/choke asleep Hendo.

Your p4p list is crazy! Well that whole post seemed crazy to me. Haha

[Pasha K]

Originally Posted by roaddawg

^^ Well said and no arguments.

I bet you did not even read it lol

[The Donosaur]

Originally Posted by Rocky>Fedor

I bet you did not even read it lol

99 out of 100 times i wouldn't finish reading a rant that long/crazy...

[Rise]

Originally Posted by Tyler Dirten

Not sure why so many people are so quick to count Hendo out on this one.

Jones is amazing.

No doubt about it... he's a great fighter.

But Hendo has proven that he is a great fighter too.
Even recently.

Which is something I think people forget about Hendo.

He fought a lot of the greats... in their prime... and came through with the W.

So I'm not counting him out so quick.

Just my two cents.

p.s. I can't agree with the people talking about Jones taking Hendo down easily... as if Dan can't wrestle?!

People are looking past Dan because of recent history he's become very reliant on the overhand only to win him fights and rarely if ever uses his wrestling anymore. When has Dan won a match in recent years that didn't involve a right hand h-bomb ?

Sure it works for him but up against an opponent like Jones who has shown alot more tools and ways to not only win fights but control the pace and where the fight takes place. It's hard not to think Hendo has few chances to win.