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[0mega1]

Originally Posted by Sniggles

Not all TRT is cheating. Correct.

Chael is not the most honest person in the world. Correct.

Do the media or the fans deserve to see his medical records? Nope. That's the job of the shitty shitty athletic commissions, which they have accepted.

I don't even believe that GSP has integrity. I don't know if someone has integrity until I meet them, or have a real conversation with them. Which makes your image of Chael Sonnen as a putrid liar being quite faulty as well. You obviously do not know how genuine of a human being that Chael is on a personal level, thus your treating him like the heel that he portrays to gain himself success in his career.

At least he doesn't whore himself out for money, like Bob Sapp or Kim Kardashian both of which are in the same category of celebrity in my books.

Ahhh, so the money laundering charge was all part of his act? Man, he goes all out.

[Sniggles]

Originally Posted by 0mega1

Ahhh, so the money laundering charge was all part of his act? Man, he goes all out.

Show me the test. His legal matters do not relate at all to his body chemistry and whether or not he should be taking testosterone. That is faulty and illogical thinking that is allowing you to connect two dots which are not even on the same page.

You can't?

That's just dandy.

[0mega1]

Originally Posted by Sniggles

Show me the test. His legal matters do not relate at all to his body chemistry and whether or not he should be taking testosterone. That is faulty and illogical thinking that is allowing you to connect two dots which are not even on the same page.

You can't?

That's just dandy.

Test? What test? I just brought up the fact that he was convicted of a federal crime; which I think holds a lot of water when we're talking about Chael's character. In which you claimed he was a genuine human being, and Im claiming he is a real piece of shit. So I dont think its faulty at all to look at ones past actions to help make assumptions of their character.

[The Return Of......]

Originally Posted by Sniggles

Show me the test. His legal matters do not relate at all to his body chemistry and whether or not he should be taking testosterone. That is faulty and illogical thinking that is allowing you to connect two dots which are not even on the same page.

You can't?

That's just dandy.

so wait...... laundering money does not show anything about his integrity? really?

it is your ignorance that even allows you to keep arguing your point.

[rivethead]

Originally Posted by Sniggles

Show me the test. His legal matters do not relate at all to his body chemistry and whether or not he should be taking testosterone. That is faulty and illogical thinking that is allowing you to connect two dots which are not even on the same page.

You can't?

That's just dandy.

Sniggles, you've taken this tack before, and you're welcome to it, but it's faulty logic. I know there are better test measures out there, but there is no reason for anyone's T/E ratio to be over 6:1. Sonnen was close to three times that. Even if he'd just injected moments before the blood-test...something he'd probably have pointed out during the process, or the hearing, or afterward...he'd still be injecting well over the recommended dosage.

Nobody is saying that his situation is exactly the same as AO's. At least, nobody I think knows what they're talking about. But they used different means to achieve the same ends.

Nobody is questioning whether years of weight cutting have left him with low levels, and thus a need for TRT.

They are questioning whether he went beyond the therapeutic usage and into PED abuse with the amount he was injecting.

And while his "legal matters" don't physically relate to his body chemistry, they do relate to his integrity, or lack thereof. He's been proven to lack integrity. He admitted it in a court of law. He's been proven to be abusing PEDs. He admitted it in the CSAC hearing, when he couldn't remember his dosage and then quoted an astronomically high number. The dots are thus connected, whether you agree with them or not. You can try to throw in all the red-herrings you want by asking if GSP has integrity or not, but asking questions that can't be answered doesn't undermine the fact that the question of sonnen's integrity has already been answered, without a doubt.

He's a proven cheater in the past. end of story.

There remains a question of whether he'll abuse TRT in the future, and that's not answerable right now...but all the indicators are there. You brought up Kim Kardashian and Bob Sapp. What are the odds that Kim stops being an attention whore in the next six months? What are the odds Sapp actually begins to train and fight without being an embarrassment, or just walks away and finds honest work somewhere? Neither of those questions can be answered either, but past character indicates future results. Same with sonnen. His past [lack of] character makes him suspect. It doesn't convict him without hope of rehabilitation, but it makes him justifiably suspect.

In the rogain interview, didn't sonnen just state that he'd do anything for the belt, including die for it? Do you really think he's illustrated enough strength of character and integrity for him to draw the line at going past the line for what he needs for TRT and into PED territory while he's pursuing something he'd give his life for?

You're more than welcome to your rose-colored glasses. I'm not buying a pair.

rh

[TBEAR]

read my Sig RH says it best there

[lwbrewer]

Does anybody know if treated today to slightly above leagal limit how long till you would be back under? (example today level 3-1 take a treatment normal size[guess] what would the ratio goto and 1 day later what would the ratio be]

[Sakara=Excitement]

Originally Posted by rivethead

Sniggles, you've taken this tack before, and you're welcome to it, but it's faulty logic. I know there are better test measures out there, but there is no reason for anyone's T/E ratio to be over 6:1. Sonnen was close to three times that. Even if he'd just injected moments before the blood-test...something he'd probably have pointed out during the process, or the hearing, or afterward...he'd still be injecting well over the recommended dosage.

Nobody is saying that his situation is exactly the same as AO's. At least, nobody I think knows what they're talking about. But they used different means to achieve the same ends.

Nobody is questioning whether years of weight cutting have left him with low levels, and thus a need for TRT.

They are questioning whether he went beyond the therapeutic usage and into PED abuse with the amount he was injecting.

And while his "legal matters" don't physically relate to his body chemistry, they do relate to his integrity, or lack thereof. He's been proven to lack integrity. He admitted it in a court of law. He's been proven to be abusing PEDs. He admitted it in the CSAC hearing, when he couldn't remember his dosage and then quoted an astronomically high number. The dots are thus connected, whether you agree with them or not. You can try to throw in all the red-herrings you want by asking if GSP has integrity or not, but asking questions that can't be answered doesn't undermine the fact that the question of sonnen's integrity has already been answered, without a doubt.

He's a proven cheater in the past. end of story.

There remains a question of whether he'll abuse TRT in the future, and that's not answerable right now...but all the indicators are there. You brought up Kim Kardashian and Bob Sapp. What are the odds that Kim stops being an attention whore in the next six months? What are the odds Sapp actually begins to train and fight without being an embarrassment, or just walks away and finds honest work somewhere? Neither of those questions can be answered either, but past character indicates future results. Same with sonnen. His past [lack of] character makes him suspect. It doesn't convict him without hope of rehabilitation, but it makes him justifiably suspect.

In the rogain interview, didn't sonnen just state that he'd do anything for the belt, including die for it? Do you really think he's illustrated enough strength of character and integrity for him to draw the line at going past the line for what he needs for TRT and into PED territory while he's pursuing something he'd give his life for?

You're more than welcome to your rose-colored glasses. I'm not buying a pair.

rh

[Kimbo> Rampage]

Sakara this is why I pulled the covers on you in the first place. You talk so much shit about Diaz fans, yet dont use your own arguments against Chael.

Originally Posted by lwbrewer

Does anybody know if treated today to slightly above leagal limit how long till you would be back under? (example today level 3-1 take a treatment normal size[guess] what would the ratio goto and 1 day later what would the ratio be]

That is why doses are monitored... It is a science. Sure their is give... like with almost any other thing. But not that large. You dont get a typical dosage(if the intent was to make you "normal") and get that high. There are obvious reasons why you would want more, particularly for an athlete.

Its not a question if he needs it(he really could, or he could be lying... trying to get an edge) either way it doesnt matter. It is a fact that he tried to abuse the system. An exemption doesnt give him the right to get as much testosterone as he wants.

I think TRT exemptions should be done away with peroid... as far as MMA goes. It sucks you may need it... but this is a professional sport, where safety could come into question. Fighters and Athletes give up a lot of things we take for granted. it is part of the job, they are more then compensated. They shouldnt get to do it just because we can...

Try pulling that shit in baseball, how much of a shit storm would that cause...

Pitcher "A" getting inject-able testosterone... You would never hear anybody say "he needs it." even if he does.

[Sakara=Excitement]

Originally Posted by rampage9712

Sakara this is why I pulled the covers on you in the first place. You talk so much shit about Diaz fans, yet dont use your own arguments against Chael.




That is why doses are monitored... It is a science. Sure their is give... like with almost any other thing. But not that large. You dont get a typical dosage(if the intent was to make you "normal") and get that high. There are obvious reasons why you would want more, particularly for an athlete.

Its not a question if he needs it(he really could, or he could be lying... trying to get an edge) either way it doesnt matter. It is a fact that he tried to abuse the system. An exemption doesnt give him the right to get as much testosterone as he wants.

I think TRT exemptions should be done away with peroid... as far as MMA goes. It sucks you may need it... but this is a professional sport, where safety could come into question. Fighters and Athletes give up a lot of things we take for granted. it is part of the job, they are more then compensated. They shouldnt get to do it just because we can...

Try pulling that shit in baseball, how much of a shit storm would that cause...

Pitcher "A" getting inject-able testosterone... You would never hear anybody say "he needs it." even if he does.