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[Sniggles]

Originally Posted by Sakara=Excitement

WillPunisher is a punk.

Indeed he was.

[The Return Of......]

Originally Posted by HillbillyDeluxe

I knew all of the rest of the countries you prick. I thought Canada was just independent or something. Which mind you IS NOT OFFENSIVE being independent and on your own, i didnt mean anything by it. My bad for having a brainfart and spacing it. You ever had one of those or are you just all great and never fuck up or have a moment of stupidity?

WAIT FOR IT...SUPRISE...GO FUCK YOURSELF.

I am a little bored at work and I need a good laugh. Can you define independent in your sentence above?

[Luc1an]

Originally Posted by Sakara=Excitement

Why is anyone putting GSP on this list?

exactly! yes the original title said North American, but he changed it to *USA BORN. Anyway. Dan Henderson bar none.

[Qball1974]

Originally Posted by goodtimes

It's all speculation. I don't think they were significantly better than Liddell, Couture, or Ortiz. Just look at how well the SF heavyweights are doing in the UFC when there were plenty of people who thought they were all cans. Or how about how poorly the Pride HW's did in the UFC? Or how about the WEC lightweights? It might even play out that the top guys from the WEC were actually better than those in the UFC.

At the highest level, it's splitting hairs. Liddell defended the belt against Ortiz, Couture, Babalu, and Horn. Ortiz and Couture were among the best at the time, Babalu was a solid fighter, and Horn had pretty recently had 2 wins over Sonnen and a win over Griffin.

I don't see anything from Shogun, Wanderlei, Rampage, Lil Nog, or Arona that makes me think Couture couldn't beat them. Liddell could beat any of them as well in his prime, but I think it would be unlikely for him to win against Rampage or Shogun because of their styles. People talk shit about how open Liddell's style was, but Wanderlei and Shogun were wild as fuck on the feet, and they were considered 2 of the best strikers in MMA at the time.

Other then Anderson I can't remember any other Pride fighter entering the UFC in thier prime, most were at the end of thier shelf life. When Dana and his ego wanted to prove a point about how much better his UFC fighters were, he sent Chuck over to clean out the Pride tournament and got embarresed. His UFC "STAR" was a mid level LHW at best.

EDIT* aslo Pride wasn't a feeder org for anyone like SF or WEC, it was equal to the UFC if not better.

[Sakara=Excitement]

Originally Posted by Qball1974

Other then Anderson I can't remember any other Pride fighter entering the UFC in thier prime, most were at the end of thier shelf life. When Dana and his ego wanted to prove a point about how much better his UFC fighters were, he sent Chuck over to clean out the Pride tournament and got embarresed. His UFC "STAR" was a mid level LHW at best.

EDIT* aslo Pride wasn't a feeder org for anyone like SF or WEC, it was equal to the UFC if not better.

Well he sent Chuck over to fight Wanderlei and only Wanderlei. Problem was, Pride didn't want Chuck to fight Wandy so they said he had to go through the tourney to fight Wandy.

THEN they were supposed to fight after Chuck beat Babalu, do the co-promotion thing and Pride FUCKED Dana White. That's why there is and has never been co-promotion.

It was more of Pride protecting Wandy if you ask me.

[goodtimes]

Originally Posted by Qball1974

Other then Anderson I can't remember any other Pride fighter entering the UFC in thier prime, most were at the end of thier shelf life. When Dana and his ego wanted to prove a point about how much better his UFC fighters were, he sent Chuck over to clean out the Pride tournament and got embarresed. His UFC "STAR" was a mid level LHW at best.

EDIT* aslo Pride wasn't a feeder org for anyone like SF or WEC, it was equal to the UFC if not better.

Liddell was the first guy to beat Overeem, who was considered one of their best LHW's at the time. He had a hard fight with Rampage, and Rampage is just a bad match up for Liddell with his unorthodox wrestling, durable frame, and accurate counter punching.

The WEC and SF were not feeder orgs, they were bought out and became feeder orgs. Before they were bought out, both orgs had great talent, the main reason why they were bought out.

And they were at the end of their shelf life, really? Cro Cop had just come off winning a Pride GP when he got humiliated by Gonzaga, and was only 33. Shogun was 26 when he tapped to Forrest. Nogueira was 31 when he came to the UFC.

I'm not saying the UFC had better talent. Pride did have a deeper roster. But when you look at the best guys across divisions, it's a faulty argument to assume that the org with a deeper roster has better champs, since it doesn't pan out like that a lot of the times.

I think a lot of the fans today only remember Liddell and Couture getting KO'ed a handful of times, and Ortiz struggling to get wins. Ya, the sport has passed them by as their bodies have broken down, but it doesn't mean they weren't good fighters in their days.

**Just thought of a perfect example. A few years ago, the UFC welterweights. People were touting it as the most stacked division in all of MMA because of guys like Sanchez, Fitch, Parisyan, Kos, Swick, Hughes, and GSP. Turns out, guys fighting in the IFL, WEC, and SF/EliteXC are now beating them. A lot of those super hyped WW's fell off the map. Fitch and Kos are struggling to stay relevant as contenders, while Hendricks, Diaz, and Condit are considered the top WW's behind GSP.

[xdevilhawk138x]

If Dan beats Jones without the greatest American fighter ever the resume will speak for itself..IMO hes always been the real Captain America

[MIZjitsZOU]

I think Hendo is and I think Jones will be.

My other tops are BJ and Hughes.

If we include North America I go GSP.

This thread was worth the read.

America, FUCK YEAH! I loved Cats poster of the world according to Americans.

[IceCold48]

Originally Posted by Sakara=Excitement

Why is anyone putting GSP on this list?

gsp definetly should be there i actually think he might be # 1. i feel chuck liddell although one of my all time favorites was overrated. tito, randy, franklin were great but not the best. bj might be # 2 then hendo rampage gotta be up there too.

jones, all the lightweights(edgar, henderson, maynard) and the WEC vets faber and cruz deserve honroable mentions at this stage of their careers.

i do not put mark coleman on the list because in my book is a disgrace to american MMA because he threw fights.

EDIT: didnt see you changed the original post in that case ignore the gsp part of my post and there is my opinion.

[beardown98]

Originally Posted by FedortheCan

.Im going to ask a honest question I have no idea the answer to.... but why do alot of Americans either not like Canadians or find them annoying?

Brian Adams!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I used to like going to windsor before i turned 21