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[dbader08]

Originally Posted by Sakara=Excitement

Calm down fan boy.
Call it what you will but Vera came out of that fight the more celebrated. Add one more person to the list of people who didn't want to stand with Vera.

lol Didn't want to stand with him? He knocked him the fuck out on the feet. Just because he took him down a few times doesn't mean he's afraid to stand with him, it's being smart. I'm sure you would have no problem with GSP taking Nick Diaz down 15 times if they were to fight, while doing much less damage than Shogun did to Vera.

Originally Posted by Sakara=Excitement

Thank you Captain obvious.But as what most everyone is saying around the Interwebz, you sometimes look greater in defeat than the man who won.

If you were here last night on the boards as the fight was happening, you would of seen that.

How unfortunate for him and for me that we had to miss what was I'm sure such a great and knowledgeable discussion...then we would have learned that getting highly outlanded in signifigant strikes, getting beat in the wrestling and grappling department, and ending the fight face first on the canvas after getting knocked the fuck out is more impressive than the opposite. Pity us...



I also have to agree with Ramma, who has always been an excellent poster, when it comes to Shogun's health. He has had a few wars, but not near as many as some people (Wandy, Hendo, Big Nog). Other than his fights with Hendo and Jones, he really hasn't taken much damage to the head at all. The fight with Lil Nog was a great fight but Shogun really did not take much damage other than the early knock down.

[Sniggles]

Imagine how much of an animal Shogun would be if knees to the head of a ground opponent were allowed. I despise that rule. If people are in a position where they can be punished, it should be legal.

Fuck Soccer Kicks and Stomps. They would shorten careers significantly, especially at lower tiers of competition.

[IceCold48]

Originally Posted by Sniggles

Fuck you BE. Shogun WON last night. It was not as if he was blown out. Vera took a ton of punishment and stayed alive. It is a testament to Vera that the fight went as long as and how it did.

Shogun blew his wad trying to finish early and was hampered the rest of the fight. Had Knees to the head on the ground been legal, Shogun would have put Vera's lights out several times.

Also Vera is the best pure striker shogun has faced in a while. Arguably the best he's fought in the UFC since the only guy I'd say may be better is chuck but maybe not at that stage in his career.

[Dr. MMA]

Originally Posted by SimpleJack

I'm a huge shogun fan and he looked a bit slower and off last night.

Definitely. Yes, he won and in my opinion won all rounds until that point (I have to re-watch the round where Brandon got the takedown but did nothing with it), but he got tired way too fast into the fight and some of his punches were really sloppy as a result.

Originally Posted by Fedorlei Gomipierre

I'm of the belief that Shogun has alot of wear and tear on his body and for his age, he's taken a tremendous amount of damage. I HATE when you hear the complement, "he's got a helluva chin/iron chin", because those are the guys that end up suffering from the longterm consequences, having taken so many shots. I love watching Shogun fight, but I fear how much more he can take.

I really recommend studying TBI(traumatic brain injury) to get a greater grasp on the wide-ranging impact of concussions and from there, what concussions really are. There's an excellent PBS:Frontline episode on sports concussions you can view online that really highlights that you don't need to be knocked out to suffer a concussion.

I personally don't think his fight with Vera was as much of a war as people make it out to be. Sure Shogun did take some damage but Vera was the one getting nailed most of the fight, getting GnP'd and dropped a few times. It looked more like a war because of how fatigued Shogun looked.

Nonetheless your overall point is correct. He has been in multiple wars, most recently against Hendo and Jones (the latter being a one-sided war). That's a lot of wear and tear on the body, and a great deal of accumulating concussions. There is very little research on the association of the duration of each knockout (in any sport) to the impact of brain tissue, however, there is plenty of research suggesting that the number of knockouts is associated with deterioration of brain tissue. Sure, Shogun has not been knocked out but what is considered a knockout varies when you are watching it as a viewer and when you're a neurologist. For the latter, a flash of 1 second meets the threshold.

[IceCold48]

Originally Posted by dbader08

lol Didn't want to stand with him? He knocked him the fuck out on the feet. Just because he took him down a few times doesn't mean he's afraid to stand with him, it's being smart. I'm sure you would have no problem with GSP taking Nick Diaz down 15 times if they were to fight, while doing much less damage than Shogun did to Vera.



How unfortunate for him and for me that we had to miss what was I'm sure such a great and knowledgeable discussion...then we would have learned that getting highly outlanded in signifigant strikes, getting beat in the wrestling and grappling department, and ending the fight face first on the canvas after getting knocked the fuck out is more impressive than the opposite. Pity us...

Great post. Countering a kick with a takedown when you have a superior ground game isn't bring afraid to stand its called fighting smart which is surprising because shogun never does that. Plus he out struck and ktfo Vera do he beat him in the stand up gane also.

[Dr. MMA]

Originally Posted by IceCold48

Great post. Countering a kick with a takedown when you have a superior ground game isn't bring afraid to stand its called fighting smart which is surprising because shogun never does that.

People criticize Shogun at times of not fighting smart, even though I feel he is one of the few fighters who uses all of their tools and mixes it up better than most LHWs. The fact is Shogun has went for the takedown against every single opponent, whether they were a great striker (like Vera or Machida), a good striker (like Chuck or Hendo), an average striker (like Forrest) or a quite mediocre striker (like Coleman). It's just a part of his game that he will go for takedowns when it presents themselves. Even though he has some of the most horrendous TDD, he is very successful in his takedowns; with the exception of Jon Jones, he has taken down all of his opponents in the UFC.

[K1NG P3NN]

So, if we root for Shogun then we are fanboys because we still like him after he had a admittedly bad showing? Interesting, seeing as how he still won, it would seem that if he had a bad showing, then his opponent probably should have capitalized and realized that MMA is not only standup. I would think that both fighters have their fair share of fans, but to just continually disrespect the opposing fanbase is pretty childish.

[Pasha K]

To be honest I do not think that Shogun has suffered the quantity of damage that someone like Wand has suffered.

I do not remember very very good each one of his fights, but from what I remember, the only 2 fights when he took a looot of damage was in the Jones and the Hendo bouts.
He also had damage against Forrest and Lil Nog but it was not like in the Jones/Hendo bouts.

It looks that cardio has became a huge issue for him in the past years. The only fight that lasted many minutes and Shogun looked OK was the first Machida fight.
He gassed against Forrest (1st fight), Coleman, Jones, Hendo, Vera.
In the other fights he won in 3 minutes.
The fact that he has had a lot of knee surgeries obviously affect him, but I also think that maybe he does not train as hard as before. He comes to fight with a gut!!

Yesterday he did not has his most impressive performance, but still he won easily. He dominated the first 3 rounds and finished in th 4th. He was never in any kind of big trouble.

[kingrobert]

I tend to agree with the article a bit. Dont get me wrong cause Shogun is a badass and one of my favorite fighters. The bottom line is that in his last couple fights he has taken some serious punishment. He seems to be going down the path of Big Nog and Wandy went. His conditioning is not near what it was in pride. He seems to be tired after the first round leading to more punishment then what is needed. Im kinda glad he isnt fighting Bones again cause he would get destroyed

[optimusjoel]

I really think all it would take is for him to have a really good camp, and a lot of the issues seen recently will be minimized. Getting his cardio at an acceptable level will help prevent him from eating so many shots because he (hopefully) won't be standing still in front of his opponent.