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[disposableassassin]

Originally Posted by cosmicsunn

that gif never gets old.

I bet FCK disagrees.

[Luc1an]

well TRT isnt a fan of Michael Bisping!

[TN94z]

As a TRT guy myself, his comments are just stupid! The reason for TRT is not to give a 40 year old man the test of a 21 year old man. It's too get the 40 year old man to normal levels because it's healthier. Most doctors won't even talk about getting you above normal.

My levels have went up over 500 points. The only thing I notice is that I don't feel tired. I haven't turned into a He man or cardio machine. I just feel like I'm supposed to feel now

[FCK]

Originally Posted by TN94z

As a TRT guy myself, his comments are just stupid! The reason for TRT is not to give a 40 year old man the test of a 21 year old man. It's too get the 40 year old man to normal levels because it's healthier. Most doctors won't even talk about getting you above normal.

My levels have went up over 500 points. The only thing I notice is that I don't feel tired. I haven't turned into a He man or cardio machine. I just feel like I'm supposed to feel now

I think he's more along the lines of why there is a greater margin for T/E testing because of TRT, that allows fighters to have a T/E ratio of up to 6:1, when if TRT wasn't allowed, it could be much lower.

I mean if every MMA fighter was fighting with 1:1, or 2:1, it seems crazy to have a TRT fighter come in with a 6:1 ratio and still be perfectly legal.

If having more testosterone in you gives you an advantage, then it would be surely be advantageous to fight with a 6:1 ratio over your normal levels.

[Kimbo> Rampage]

Originally Posted by Fe1

I don't claim to be an expert on the subject but I don't think TRT makes your testosterone levels of that of a 21 year old. I'm pretty sure it just gives you the normal amount of testosterone. In any case,doctors prescribe it and the athletic commissions allow it. I'm all for it if it let's fighters compete a bit longer in the sport that they love.

That is very subjective...

But because "doctors prescribe it and the a.c. allows it" it must be ok...



What the allowable levels are and what the average levels are, are not always the same thing..

In Nevada they allow a 6:1 Ratio... The average ratio is 1:1

As to your last part, Im all for letting fighters having more longevity in the sport, but when it becomes an unfair advantage it crosses the line...

But I guess the same people who criticize any injury will eat up the sob stories about how the fighter convincingly needs inject-able testosterone...

Originally Posted by FCK

If having more testosterone in you gives you an advantage, then it would be surely be advantageous to fight with a 6:1 ratio over your normal levels.

Yes... Also having elevated levels during your training camp, where all the work is done...

[AnchorPunch]

Originally Posted by TN94z

As a TRT guy myself, his comments are just stupid! The reason for TRT is not to give a 40 year old man the test of a 21 year old man. It's too get the 40 year old man to normal levels because it's healthier. Most doctors won't even talk about getting you above normal.

My levels have went up over 500 points. The only thing I notice is that I don't feel tired. I haven't turned into a He man or cardio machine. I just feel like I'm supposed to feel now

as a guy who's clearly talked to doctors about it and may know more about origins: do you have any knowledge as to how much cutting weight and/or constant competition plays into this versus, say, just genetics or even prior steroid abuse?

[TN94z]

Originally Posted by FCK

I think he's more along the lines of why there is a greater margin for T/E testing because of TRT, that allows fighters to have a T/E ratio of up to 6:1, when if TRT wasn't allowed, it could be much lower.

I mean if every MMA fighter was fighting with 1:1, or 2:1, it seems crazy to have a TRT fighter come in with a 6:1 ratio and still be perfectly legal.

If having more testosterone in you gives you an advantage, then it would be surely be advantageous to fight with a 6:1 ratio over your normal levels.

Great point but it just sounds like he is talking TRT alone with no regards to T/E ratio. It sounds more like he is just referring to the body's natural production of test and the T level period. Maybe I'm wrong.


But with that being said, and me reading the thing again....I can't say that I really disagree with the last part of what he says. But I am older and have the technique will overcome strength frame of thought which would lead me down the road of staying with the cards you are dealt as far as that goes. So I get what he's saying, I just think he is wrong in the way I interpret his TRT comments.

[rivethead]

If it's applied correctly, it's not about giving a 40+ man the test of a 20 year old. It's about bringing a 40+ man back within the regular limits of a 40+ man.

Originally Posted by FCK

I mean if every MMA fighter was fighting with 1:1, or 2:1, it seems crazy to have a TRT fighter come in with a 6:1 ratio and still be perfectly legal.

If having more testosterone in you gives you an advantage, then it would be surely be advantageous to fight with a 6:1 ratio over your normal levels.

Every fighter isn't coming in with a 1:1 or a 2:1 ratio. That's the point of having the 6:1 limit, as it allows for variance between different people. Each individual produces test and epitest differently, and some can even produce it differently at different times of week/month/year, so if you tested a group of 100% clean fighters throughout a year, you're going to get a pretty big variance throughout the experience, and it may not conform to a consistent pattern even for one individual's results. The Olympic commission came up with the 6:1 ratio as a compromise after years of studying a variety of results.

Originally Posted by AnchorPunch

as a guy who's clearly talked to doctors about it and may know more about origins: do you have any knowledge as to how much cutting weight and/or constant competition plays into this versus, say, just genetics or even prior steroid abuse?

I just talked to an endocrinologist about 6 months ago specifically about this, and she stated that she hasn't seen anything linking weight cutting to low test production. She indicated that it would make sense if the individual was a developing adolescent and was lowering their electrolyte levels to the point of permenant impact, but that it would probably be a consistent effect: ie, that if a 12 year-old kid is cutting 15% of their BW to wrestle routinely, they're probably never going to produce the testosterone that a healthy kid would. But that it probably wouldn't be something like normal production for 15 year and then drop off when they approach 30. She said there is a lot of data connecting long-term steriod use with low biological production, and that longterm TRT can have the same effect.

rh

[H0SS]

Originally Posted by FCK

I think he's more along the lines of why there is a greater margin for T/E testing because of TRT, that allows fighters to have a T/E ratio of up to 6:1, when if TRT wasn't allowed, it could be much lower.

I mean if every MMA fighter was fighting with 1:1, or 2:1, it seems crazy to have a TRT fighter come in with a 6:1 ratio and still be perfectly legal.

If having more testosterone in you gives you an advantage, then it would be surely be advantageous to fight with a 6:1 ratio over your normal levels.

The T:E ratio doesn't apply to fighters on TRT. The whole purpose of the T:E ratio is to detect use of synthetic testosterone as it is impossible to have a high T:E score without its use. When someone has hypogonadism they have really low "E" scores because epitestosterone is only made from natural testosterone, and someone with hypogonadism has low testosterone levels. They then use injections to bring their "T" levels up to normal levels, but they still have low "E" since synthetic "T" does not make "E". So they have normal T and low E giving them a high T:E score. Since guys on TRT will always have funky T:E scores they do a blood test after the fight to determine Total Testosterone levels, and make sure those are at normal levels.

A normal person using steroids will have normal E but high T giving them the same high T:E score, same as someone on TRT. The big difference is they have unnaturally high testosterone levels. The T:E test doesn't give a number for either T or E and this why guys on TRT need to get their T values checked.

[d-low]

I'd like to thank Michael Bisping for sharing his thoughts on the topic....I have been waiting for a long time to find out what Bisping feels about TRT........and now I know....