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[rivethead]

Originally Posted by Spoon

I disagree with GSP being called a "smaller" fighter. Yes, he does fight in a lower weight class, but is he really smaller? I swear I've hear both GSP and Silva cut weight from around 205-215lbs before, and that's only a roughly 10lb difference (depending on the specific weight each actually cuts).

You've heard incorrectly.

Here's a scenario. Say GSP is Silva's last fight, and Silva wins. Some of you are saying it would do nothing for Silva's P4P ranking. But what if GSP vacates the WW title (or loses it), and moves up to MW later down the road. Not only does he move up, but wins the title, and holds on to it for years. Would that make Silva's past win over him more impressive, and shoot him back up to the top of the P4P best of all time (or GOAT) list again?

No. Not in my opinion. p4p is more about trying to determine a fighter's skills without the advantage of size, and size is going to play a significant role in the fight.

rh

[The Donosaur]

Originally Posted by rivethead

You've heard incorrectly.


No. Not in my opinion. p4p is more about trying to determine a fighter's skills without the advantage of size, and size is going to play a significant role in the fight.

rh

I agree with you, but I've always thought the pound for pound conversation was flawed at its very core. If you were trying to figure out who was the better fighter pound for pound between JDS & Frankie Edgar how would you do it? Would you put them both at heavyweight were Frankie would obviously lose alot of speed or would you put them at lightweight where JDS would obviously lose alot of strength? Even at a neutral weight they would both gain/lose speed/strength. That's the way I look at pound for pound. I may not understand what pound for pound is supposed to, but I view it as what if guys in different weight classes magically became the same size so that it was purely skill versus skill. My previous point wasn't insulting anyone who cares about pound for pound rankings, but merely to state that if you change a fighters size to a neutral weight then you are changing the fighters skillset, and basically at that point you don't even have the same fighter. Then again maybe I just don't understand pound for pound theory.

[GangGreenWarrior]

I chose Diaz because I would like Wiedman to get one more fight and one more training camp under his belt before he gears up for Silva. My reasoning is to increase his competitiveness vs Silva. And Diaz is a better choice than GSP as it doesn't ruin any title pictures. I would not be opposed to Wiedman fighting Silva next, but I think his chances improve if he has another fight first.

[Sniggles]

Weidman or vacate.

[W.Silva>C.Norris]

Originally Posted by The Donosaur

I agree with you, but I've always thought the pound for pound conversation was flawed at its very core. If you were trying to figure out who was the better fighter pound for pound between JDS & Frankie Edgar how would you do it? Would you put them both at heavyweight were Frankie would obviously lose alot of speed or would you put them at lightweight where JDS would obviously lose alot of strength? Even at a neutral weight they would both gain/lose speed/strength. That's the way I look at pound for pound. I may not understand what pound for pound is supposed to, but I view it as what if guys in different weight classes magically became the same size so that it was purely skill versus skill. My previous point wasn't insulting anyone who cares about pound for pound rankings, but merely to state that if you change a fighters size to a neutral weight then you are changing the fighters skillset, and basically at that point you don't even have the same fighter. Then again maybe I just don't understand pound for pound theory.

P4P is pretty much just another way to say "whos my favourite fighter". I fail to understand how a fighter who's never fought outside their weight class can be rated as a "pound for pound" great.

BJ Penn, Randy and Dan Henderson are the only three I can really call p4p greats, as they have been championship caliber fighters across at least 2 weight classes.

[Kimbo> Rampage]

Originally Posted by rivethead

Do you want to see that fight because it's a spectacle, or because you feel the opponent poses the most legitimate threat to Anderson?

rh

Weidman has been very impressive and clearly earned a title shot. He also poses some styleisict problems for Anderson. But acting like he has a better shot against Anderson than GSP is taking it way too far. He is very impressive, but I wouldnt go that far.

I wouldnt want to see GSP vs. Silva, unless GSP wanted the fight... But if it was Anderson's "last fight" id have to pick that.

spectacle and the opponent that poses the most legitimate threat to Anderson... clearly both go to GSP.

As far as most deserving MW's to get a title shot, its Weidman.

Originally Posted by VimyRidge

I know Silva doesn't like fighting anyone who might actually beat him or challenge him, but GSP? Is this a joke??? There is no way I would pay to see this.

Beating up the 5-10 , 190 lbs GSP doesn't add much to his resume. GSP has had enough problems with people at WW. If he can't finish Hardy, there is no way in hell he is going to finish Silva.

He should move up and fight Jones.

So by the idea of beating the smaller champ not doing anything for him. Why would Jones want to fight Silva... If anythings Jones has a bigger size advantage against Silva than AS has on GSP.

Silva's resume is pretty thin for the number of fights he has had and to be considered p4p champion/goat is a joke. A lot of hand picked opponents. If he is too scared to fight Jones, at least fight Rashad or Shogun.

Who was handpicked.... He fought everybody deserving for a title shot. He also has more defenses of his title than GSP, if I remember correctly.(his direct competition)

The only questionable time was when he wasnt jumping at the idea of rematches with guys he finished convincingly. Marquardt and Hendo were offered to fight each other... the winner getting a rematch, that they both wanted... Only Dan went to Strikeforce and Nate lost in his very next fight to Sonnen... Who Anderson has fought twice since then.

[Spoon]

Originally Posted by rivethead

You've heard incorrectly.

rh

Yup. I actually did a little search and found Silva allegedly weighs anywhere from 220-240 naturally, and GSP allegedly weighs around the 195 mark.

[rivethead]

Originally Posted by Spoon

Yup. I actually did a little search and found Silva allegedly weighs anywhere from 220-240 naturally, and GSP allegedly weighs around the 195 mark.

this comes up a lot, and it's easy to misinterpret. Silva doesn't "cut weight" from 220.

Walk-around weight is entirely different from cageweight. It's what a fighter weighs before they start a camp. Some fighters let themselves go a bit between bouts--Rampage declined to sign for a Shogun fight because he'd blown up to 250 and didn't feel like starting a camp, etc. Anderson doesn't stay in shape all year. So he gets up to around the 230 range. He signs a bout agreement, and in the course of his camp, gets down to about 205-210. After the camp, he makes his weight cut and rehydrates, and is alleged to enter the cage in that 205-210 range for the actual bout.

Georges stays in shape year round. He's a gym rat. So he's rarely going to be above 200. I heard he was concerned at his weight during his injury rehab because he'd gone over 205, but I don't know how accurate that was. So he starts a camp around 195, but doesn't drop as much weight because he's not carrying fat. He generally cuts from around 185, and enters the cage somewhere between 185-190 after rehydrating.

But what a fighter walks around at bears little resemblance to the weight they cut from, or their cageweight during the bout.

rh

[Goremire]

A question for those who know more about weight/muscle building than I do. Say hypothetically Silva and GSP agreed to fight in 12 months time. I'm basing that on a half-remembered comment from GSP a few years back about needing a year to prepare for a run at middleweight.

How much muscle could GSP conceivebly put on in that time? Would it even be beneficial for him to do so? I posted earlier that Silva would have 30lbs on GSP if they were to fight at middleweight but that doesnt sound like it would be that big of a deficit.

Obviously Silva would still be the larger fighter, but GSP wouldn't exactly be dwarfed if they were to face off.

[rivethead]

Originally Posted by Goremire

A question for those who know more about weight/muscle building than I do. Say hypothetically Silva and GSP agreed to fight in 12 months time. I'm basing that on a half-remembered comment from GSP a few years back about needing a year to prepare for a run at middleweight.

I don't have an answer, other than to further complicate things. Rampage recently posted that Firas Zahibi and GSP himself have stated that Georges is an ectomorph, which means it wouldn't be easy for him to pack musclemass on his frame. Personally, I don't agree with the assessment. He's got the classic mesomorph body frame, but they were specifically referring to his ability to gain mass. I'm betting Georges diet and regimen have his metabolism exceptionally high, making it difficult to gain weight; so it's not like he's going to be able to just hit the gym a bit harder and eat an extra steak and bulk right up.

The last I heard was that he would want a year to do it, and that it would be a permanent move to MW, that he didn't think he'd be able to cut back down if he added the size. When you couple that time-frame with the layoff he's had at WW due to injury, you're looking at 2014, essentially--and that's if he still thinks the fight is interesting, which is questionable.

Does even the most blinded-by-manlove Anderson fanboy want to see him idle for the next 16 months on the gamble that Georges will still want to move up? If that's the case, I'd just as soon have him vacate the title and have Zuffa hold a MW tourney.

rh