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[Mac]

Originally Posted by LefthookStcrook

Do you think its because the division hasnt had enough time to grow? Or was it just the recent outcomes? Because the division has been around for a damn long time, and If Jon Jones can make a case for GOAT after three top 5 fights, why cant anyone else?

It's not about the division growing, there just hasn't been a dominant LW yet. You can't say Penn is the GOAT because Edgar beat him twice. You can't then say Edgar because he has lost to Henderson twice. Henderson hasn't had time to dominate yet so you can't pick him either. Will he? I don't know but I think the LW title is going to be a revolving door for a while.

I don't consider Jones in the running for GOAT yet either but I think the difference is that you can't find a guy who people think can beat him so it gets thrown out there prematurely. It's different with the LWs because you can't look at one of them and say, I don't see how anyone can beat this guy.

There may never be a GOAT at LW and there doesn't really need to be. It seems like everybody is jumping on this GOAT bandwagon lately and I'm not sure why. The only weight class you can look at and say we may be seeing the best ever is MW.

[travtera]

It's really hard to forget the path of destruction BJ went on in capturing and defending the LW title. Pulver, Stevenson, Sherk, Florian and Sanchez - He didn't just beat but destroyed them and made it look easy. He had an aura of invincibility that I just never sensed from Frankie. Sure Edgar beat Penn twice but he just seemed to have BJ's number. He was too quick and had that blue collar output that BJ just couldn't match over 5 rounds. There was lots to love about Frankie but his run lacked the dominant wins for me to put him over Penn.

[dbader08]

It's easily Penn at this point.

Yeah Frankie beat him twice but I personally think Penn won the 1st fight.

Plus BJ dominated the shit out of most of the LW's he fought whereas Frankie rarely finishes his opponents...

He is obviously an off and on type of fighter but, to me, I've never seen a LW that impressed me like the BJ that fought Kenflo and Diego.

Diego is seriously the toughest SOB ever to not have been knocked out in that BJ fight...well technically I think he was knocked out for a second in the 1st round lol...but he somehow recovered...then was still fighting after the brutal headkick and uppercuts in the 5th.

[Mac]

Originally Posted by travtera

It's really hard to forget the path of destruction BJ went on in capturing and defending the LW title. Pulver, Stevenson, Sherk, Florian and Sanchez - He didn't just beat but destroyed them and made it look easy. He had an aura of invincibility that I just never sensed from Frankie. Sure Edgar beat Penn twice but he just seemed to have BJ's number. He was too quick and had that blue collar output that BJ just couldn't match over 5 rounds. There was lots to love about Frankie but his run lacked the dominant wins for me to put him over Penn.

Edgar beating him and Maynard is more impressive IMO. Plus the fact that Edgar is smaller than every LW he fights is more impressive by far.

Once again though, talk of a LW GOAT as of yet is just plain silly.

[rivethead]

You guys hate Penn because he's Hawiian.

rh

[rodneykm]

I like how the poll results are BJ Penn 98%.

[LefthookStcrook]

Originally Posted by Mac

There may never be a GOAT at LW and there doesn't really need to be. It seems like everybody is jumping on this GOAT bandwagon lately and I'm not sure why. The only weight class you can look at and say we may be seeing the best ever is MW.

Maybe its just my opinion but I think there almost has to be a Goat in any established division. As I said these guys have been fighting for almost as long as any other division, its deffinetly established. But the recent outcomes certainly play a factor into something like this, hence making it a harder decision then most divisions. But yeah, theres one out there imo.

Originally Posted by travtera

It's really hard to forget the path of destruction BJ went on in capturing and defending the LW title. Pulver, Stevenson, Sherk, Florian and Sanchez - He didn't just beat but destroyed them and made it look easy. He had an aura of invincibility that I just never sensed from Frankie. Sure Edgar beat Penn twice but he just seemed to have BJ's number. He was too quick and had that blue collar output that BJ just couldn't match over 5 rounds. There was lots to love about Frankie but his run lacked the dominant wins for me to put him over Penn.

I can agree that BJ destroyed his opponents, but I personally dont rank his LW title run THAT impressive. Looking at those guys Penn beat at LW, who was the most deserving of getting the title shot? Id say Kenny Florian.

Pulver was brought in as a "grudge match" and was 0-1 in his UFC run at the time. 3-3 in his last 6.

Joe Daddy beat Mishima, Edwards, Guillard and Pelegrino.

Sherk beat Florian and Franca then got popped, then came back immediatley into a title shot.

Now Florian went on a 6 fight win streak, very impressive. He beat Mishima(Who Joe beat), Din Thomas, Joe Lauzon(who beat Pulver), Roger Heurta, and Joe Stevenson(who Penn beat). Theres more significant names there then anyone else BJ won against.

Diego Sanchez was brought into the division on a fast track to the title. Sure wins over Joe daddy and Clay Guida were good at the time but he didnt have to go through the likes of Sherk,Florian or Maynard.

During Frankies run there was no doubt he was fighting the #2 guy.

Originally Posted by dbader08

Diego is seriously the toughest SOB ever to not have been knocked out in that BJ fight...well technically I think he was knocked out for a second in the 1st round lol...but he somehow recovered...then was still fighting after the brutal headkick and uppercuts in the 5th.

Honestly how impressive was Diego at LW really? He went 2-0, 2 decisions, the one against Clay was a split, Then got raped by Penn.

He had exciting fights against Clay and Penn no doubt. I just never really looked at him as a serious contender at LW because he can take a shot. Also when Diego fought Joe, Joe was coming off a lost.

Originally Posted by Mac

Edgar beating him and Maynard is more impressive IMO. Plus the fact that Edgar is smaller than every LW he fights is more impressive by far.
Once again though, talk of a LW GOAT as of yet is just plain silly.

I agree with the bold, disagree with the rest lol.

Imo its pretty obvious that beating Maynard is more impressive then beating Diego or Pulver or Stevenson.

And the fact that Frankie beat Bj twice is more impressive then beating Sherk and Florian.

Plus Edgar beat Sherk as well.

Frankies got BJs title run covered on all angles imo.

Originally Posted by rodneykm

I like how the poll results are BJ Penn 98%.

I wish people would start explaining themselves lol or just read my post and realize they're wrong

[Fedorlei Gomipierre]

Jon Jones is a tremendous lightweight.

At least, that's what the arresting officer at the scene of his Bentley accident said.

[The Return Of......]

I think people get Greatest Of All Time confused with Greatest Of There Time.

[Adambomb]

Originally Posted by Mac

It's not about the division growing, there just hasn't been a dominant LW yet. You can't say Penn is the GOAT because Edgar beat him twice. You can't then say Edgar because he has lost to Henderson twice.

Fedor lost to Hendo, Bigfoot, & Werdum. Does that mean he isn't the greatest heavyweight?

It's not about who beat who, it's about accomplishments. At lightweight (or at least against guys who are/were lightweights) BJ Penn is 12-3-1, with 3 title defenses, & all 3 losses coming in title fights. In 2003 he beat Gomi, who was the #1 LW in the world for years after that. He was on top longer than any other LW Champion (in defenses) and dominated his opposition. Plus he avenged the loss to Pulver, & the first loss to Edgar was a fairly controversial decision.

[/QUOTE]I don't consider Jones in the running for GOAT yet either but I think the difference is that you can't find a guy who people think can beat him so it gets thrown out there prematurely. It's different with the LWs because you can't look at one of them and say, I don't see how anyone can beat this guy.[/QUOTE]

It's not premature to put someone into the GOAT discussion when he had the single greatest year any mixed martial artist has ever had & currently holds the record for title defenses in that division. Accomplishments are what determine the GOAT, not time. No LHW Champion has accomplished what Bones has.

Originally Posted by Mac

There may never be a GOAT at LW and there doesn't really need to be. It seems like everybody is jumping on this GOAT bandwagon lately and I'm not sure why. The only weight class you can look at and say we may be seeing the best ever is MW.

There's a difference between "Greatest" & "Best". The "best" fighter ever would be someone who could beat anyone from any era. I agree it's pretty much impossible to determine that.

However it is possible to determine who the "Greatest" fighter of a division is, or rather, who accomplished the most.