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[Mac]

Originally Posted by The Return Of......

I think people get Greatest Of All Time confused with Greatest Of There Time.

I agree with all of this except there is their. But yes, people do not understand the meaning of the term GOAT. None of those guys on that list will be in the discussion 20 years from now.

Penn wins by default, not by merritt.

[dbader08]

Originally Posted by LefthookStcrook

Maybe its just my opinion but I think there almost has to be a Goat in any established division. As I said these guys have been fighting for almost as long as any other division, its deffinetly established. But the recent outcomes certainly play a factor into something like this, hence making it a harder decision then most divisions. But yeah, theres one out there imo.



I can agree that BJ destroyed his opponents, but I personally dont rank his LW title run THAT impressive. Looking at those guys Penn beat at LW, who was the most deserving of getting the title shot? Id say Kenny Florian.

Pulver was brought in as a "grudge match" and was 0-1 in his UFC run at the time. 3-3 in his last 6.

Joe Daddy beat Mishima, Edwards, Guillard and Pelegrino.

Sherk beat Florian and Franca then got popped, then came back immediatley into a title shot.

Now Florian went on a 6 fight win streak, very impressive. He beat Mishima(Who Joe beat), Din Thomas, Joe Lauzon(who beat Pulver), Roger Heurta, and Joe Stevenson(who Penn beat). Theres more significant names there then anyone else BJ won against.

Diego Sanchez was brought into the division on a fast track to the title. Sure wins over Joe daddy and Clay Guida were good at the time but he didnt have to go through the likes of Sherk,Florian or Maynard.

During Frankies run there was no doubt he was fighting the #2 guy.




Honestly how impressive was Diego at LW really? He went 2-0, 2 decisions, the one against Clay was a split, Then got raped by Penn.

He had exciting fights against Clay and Penn no doubt. I just never really looked at him as a serious contender at LW because he can take a shot. Also when Diego fought Joe, Joe was coming off a lost.



I agree with the bold, disagree with the rest lol.

Imo its pretty obvious that beating Maynard is more impressive then beating Diego or Pulver or Stevenson.

And the fact that Frankie beat Bj twice is more impressive then beating Sherk and Florian.

Plus Edgar beat Sherk as well.

Frankies got BJs title run covered on all angles imo.



I wish people would start explaining themselves lol or just read my post and realize they're wrong

I and alot of people feel that BJ won the first fight with Edgar...and either way it was close as hell so it is not nearly as definitive a win dominating over someone.

Yeah Diego's fight against Clay was a split decision but we also have retarded judges. Diego flat out beat the fuck out of Clay in that fight, and yes I think Diego is just as good of a fighter as Maynard is. Maynard would be able to do nothing against Penn imo he is too slow and relied on his wrestling for many of his fights. Plus, Edgar also has a loss to Maynard.

Yes Edgar beat Sherk but that was a pretty competitive fight whereas BJ utterly destroyed Sherk.

[BonesKnows]

out of the names listed i have to go with baby j. When he dropped down to 155 he choked out pulver, choked out a bloody stevenson, had the famous "Sean Sherk your dead" speech, then landed one of the dirtiest flying knees to put sean sherk out, beat up kenflo, and outclassed diego. I dont remember anyone to burst into a division like he did and the way he did.

With all of that said, hes not untouchable as the "GOAT of the LW division"

CM

[rivethead]

At this point, Penn has accomplished more than anyone on the list. He may be eclipsed in time, but he's a better fighter than anyone else has illustrated at this point.

rh

[LefthookStcrook]

Originally Posted by dbader08

I and alot of people feel that BJ won the first fight with Edgar...and either way it was close as hell so it is not nearly as definitive a win dominating over someone.

Yeah Diego's fight against Clay was a split decision but we also have retarded judges. Diego flat out beat the fuck out of Clay in that fight, and yes I think Diego is just as good of a fighter as Maynard is. Maynard would be able to do nothing against Penn imo he is too slow and relied on his wrestling for many of his fights. Plus, Edgar also has a loss to Maynard.

Yes Edgar beat Sherk but that was a pretty competitive fight whereas BJ utterly destroyed Sherk.

I agree that Penn destroyed his foes but to say that the judges were fucked for guida/sanchez but spot on for penn/edgar 1 is just being biased IMHO.

And I'm trying to go by actual accomplishmts, not my own personal opinion. Notice how I never once mentioned how close both Bendo fights were for Edgar? Alot of people thought he won, both of them, but he lost, just like Bj did.

And I 100% disagree that Diego is just as good of a LW as Maynard, but to each their own.

Penn dominating his fights is the strongest argument he's got IMO, not his opponents.

[travtera]

Yeah Edgar beat Penn twice. Even Superman had his kryptonite. Penn holds two wins over Matt Hughes but I would still rank Hughes higher on the alltime WW list. The exclamation point for Penn at lightweight is his resume, longevity and his performance. Due to the evolution of the sport, Edgar may have faced slightly stiffer competition during his run. I'm not going to hold that against Penn. BJ pretty much fought only the best of his era and obliterated most of them. Every title fight Frankie has had has been a struggle where his heart has willed him to victory, draw or narrow defeat. Finishes and dominate performances I believe are a premium criteria in this discussion. I think that's what Penn edges Edgar out with.

[Flynnja]

Originally Posted by dbader08

Yes Edgar beat Sherk but that was a pretty competitive fight whereas BJ utterly destroyed Sherk.

Three rounds of getting your head peppered off isn't really competitive.

[dbader08]

It was far, far more competitive than Penn-Sherk any way you look at it.

and Lefthook how is it biased that I Think Guida-Sanchez wasn't as close as Edgar-Penn 1 LOL!

Guida took a complete beating in that fight...got rocked with huge uppercuts in the opening seconds of the fight, almost got killed with a headkick, and was even taking more damage when he took Diego down via elbows from the bottom.

Yet since it was for some reason a split decision, it isn't as impressive as Maynard laying on Kenflo for 3 rounds.

Penn-Edgar was WAY closer.

and I will never go strictly by paper accomplishments, it's just not me. I'll always dig deeper into the fights to pull more out of them instead of just the end result, with as contreversial and untelling as those can be at times.