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[Goremire]

I'll try and simpflify this, because there seems to be some confusion about these potential Superfights, and the term 'coward' being thrown around fairly liberally. Below is how I see it:

GSP calls out Ben Henderson = not Ballsy.
GSP calls out Silva = Ballsy.
GSP calls out No One, fights the number 1 contender at 170 = doing his job

Silva calls out GSP = not Ballsy
Silva calls out Jones = Ballsy
Silva calls out No One, fights the number 1 contender at 185 = doing his job

Jones calls out Silva = not Ballsy
Jones calls out JDS = Ballsy
Jones calls out No One, fights the number 1 contender at 205 = doing his job

As you can see, a lot of my highly scientific ratings depend on who is initiating or trying to drive the Superfight. The Balls-o-Meter works on the assumption that if two equally skilled fighters match up the larger fighter will likely win (the "A good big man will always beat a good little man" cliche.)

A fighter who accepts a fight with a smaller opponent who has called him out has a lower Ballsy rating than calling out a larger opponent, but a higher Ballsy rating than calling out a smaller opponent.
This is because I'm a firm believer that if a champion is being called out by someone they should have the opportunity to answer the challenge. Not as Ballsy as calling out the guy in the division above him, but Ballsy-er than calling out the guy in the division below. Call it Ballsy-ish.

Flat out refusing to fight a smaller opponent who has called him out for not good reason gets a negative Ballsy rating (The dreaded No Balls).

Not entertaining the idea of a Superfight at all gets a neutral Ballsy rating because after all it's that champions job to defend their title. Superfights go above and beyond this.

Just my two cents.

[v3xi]

When I call Anderson a coward it is not based on the superfight issue alone. The biggest reason are things like when he says "it would be an honor to fight Michael Bisping" and avoids legit rematches against hot fighters and instead picks fights against people he knows he can beat and then fucks around in those fights. Hiding behind that monkey Soares is cowardly, saying one thing and doing another or just flat out contradicting himself on a week to week basis doesn't get him any points either.

[Goremire]

Originally Posted by v3xi

When I call Anderson a coward it is not based on the superfight issue alone. The biggest reason are things like when he says "it would be an honor to fight Michael Bisping" and avoids legit rematches against hot fighters and instead picks fights against people he knows he can beat and then fucks around in those fights. Hiding behind that monkey Soares is cowardly, saying one thing and doing another or just flat out contradicting himself on a week to week basis doesn't get him any points either.

All good: FYI, when I was talking about the word coward being used liberally, I didn't mean specifically by you, or even specifically in this thread.

I also lurk on other forums so I've seen it around a fair bit. Sometimes aimed at Jones for not calling out Silva, and also GSP for not calling out Silva.

I don't think Silva not calling out Jones shows a lack of balls. Silva calling out GSP though...?

[TN94z]

BS on the Forrest fight? Show me the article where it wasn't true. Dana started the super fight talk. Neither fighter spoke of this until Dana said something about GSP and Anderson years ago.

I haven't seen anyone in MW that Anderson hasn't fought. Everyone wants to bitch about Anderson fighting lower LHWs and not fighting Jones for instance, but if Anderson fought Jones and won the title, then everyone would bitch about him having two belts and not defending enough. Yes, I am an Anderson fan....shouldn't need to feel bad about that. I am also a HUGE GSP fan. But on the other hand, I can't stand Jones!! He has a ton of talent and potential, but I can't stand him. I think he's fake. Legit rematches....like Sonnen? Who else worked their way back up for a legit rematch?

It never fails that when someone is dominating they become hated on. So if Anderson fight GSP and then fights Jones and beats them both....what will the haters have to scrutinize then? The fights were fixed? That will be next...

[rivethead]

Sigh...it's slow today, so I'll play this one...

Originally Posted by TN94z

I haven't seen anyone in MW that Anderson hasn't fought.

Chris Weidman has beaten a top 10 in Maia--on 2 weeks notice--and a top 5 in Munoz. dana announced Wiedman as the #1 contender after the Munoz stoppage. soares immediately went to work discrediting him, and asking for Bisping instead--or the WW Georges and even the suspended WW Nick Diaz. In the face of an apathetic response from Anderson's management; Weidman scheduled a surgery and signed on to face Boetsch in December, who has also beaten two top 10s, although not as dominantly.

Anderson has since flat-out stated he has no intention of ever fighting Weidman.

How hard is that to comprehend? Weidman was announced as the #1 contender even before he fights yet another top 5 fighter, and Anderson--from his own mouth, not via soares' nonsense-hole--has stated he has no intention of ever facing him.

Whether you're an Anderson fan or not--and I am, believe it or not--that's a fucking problem. It's a huge problem.



I actually think he'd probably beat Chris, but I take exception to him not being willing to fight him.

Everyone wants to bitch about Anderson fighting lower LHWs and not fighting Jones for instance, but if Anderson fought Jones and won the title, then everyone would bitch about him having two belts and not defending enough.

Not everyone is bitching about him not fighting Jones.

Not even close.

Sure, some people are complaining about it, but that's low-hanging fruit and easily dismissable.

The most valid criticism is that Anderson is looking for superfights against fighters that don't want it while his division--which has more viable fights today than it ever has--sits idle.

The biggest criticism Anderson faces is that he's not doing his job in defending the MW belt.

Yes, I am an Anderson fan....shouldn't need to feel bad about that.

I don't know that anyone is trying to make you feel bad about that. I'm an Anderson fan as well, but I want him to be the best he can be; just as I wanted Fedor to be the best he could be. When Fedor followed M1 to oblivion, I didn't try to defend his decision. He had a point where he could have eaten crow and come to terms with the UFC, and he failed. It sucks, because I don't want Fedor to have faults; but he's human and he clearly does. Pretending that he doesn't, and focusing on the completely spurious criticism while ignoring the valid criticism makes you look far less intelligent than you probably are.

I am also a HUGE GSP fan. But on the other hand, I can't stand Jones!! He has a ton of talent and potential, but I can't stand him. I think he's fake. Legit rematches....like Sonnen? Who else worked their way back up for a legit rematch?

I have no idea what you're talking about here, so I'll leave it alone. Are you referring to Anderson's rematches or the ones Jones has yet to fight?

It never fails that when someone is dominating they become hated on. So if Anderson fight GSP and then fights Jones and beats them both....what will the haters have to scrutinize then? The fights were fixed? That will be next...

I'll be pretty clear about this: I feel Anderson should give up on the GSP fight. It literally does nothing for his legacy, it's purely a vanity fight that will net him money, but at the cost of his credibility.

A bigger fighter is supposed to beat a smaller fighter. Chasing the fight in the face of Georges' indifference makes him look like a punkass and a bully, and it's hard to watch.

But if it happens, it's not going to happen till the middle of 2013, which means the earliest Anderson could/would be defending his belt would be sometime around September of 2013, which comes out to something slightly worse than 3 defenses in 3 years.

And that's if he doesn't pursue a superfight with Jones.

That's a problem. 3 defenses in over 3 years is pathetic. You're expecting all the MW fighters--fighters who have already done more to earn shots than half the guys in Anderson's resume--to wait around while he takes on vanity fights.

Anderson has one obligation, and that's to defend the belt. He doesn't owe the fans nice soundbytes, or signatures, or even great performances or fights that he finishes in highlight reel fashion. But he does owe the fans, and the other fighters in his division, title fights. He has obligations as Champion.

And right now, he's showing every intention of shirking them.

rh

[W.Silva>C.Norris]

Originally Posted by TN94z

I haven't seen anyone in MW that Anderson hasn't fought. Everyone wants to bitch about Anderson fighting lower LHWs and not fighting Jones for instance, but if Anderson fought Jones and won the title, then everyone would bitch about him having two belts and not defending enough. Yes, I am an Anderson fan....shouldn't need to feel bad about that. I am also a HUGE GSP fan. But on the other hand, I can't stand Jones!! He has a ton of talent and potential, but I can't stand him. I think he's fake. Legit rematches....like Sonnen? Who else worked their way back up for a legit rematch?

Weidman.

like Henderson?

EDIT: Pretty much what RH said, but with less words.

[rivethead]

Originally Posted by W.Silva>C.Norris

Weidman.

like Henderson?

EDIT: Pretty much what RH said, but with less words.

I'm just overtyping to piss off 'brewer.

Half of what I stick in the middle of big paragraphs isn't even in English.

rh

[TN94z]

Originally Posted by rivethead

Sigh...it's slow today, so I'll play this one...


Chris Weidman has beaten a top 10 in Maia--on 2 weeks notice--and a top 5 in Munoz. dana announced Wiedman as the #1 contender after the Munoz stoppage. soares immediately went to work discrediting him, and asking for Bisping instead--or the WW Georges and even the suspended WW Nick Diaz. In the face of an apathetic response from Anderson's management; Weidman scheduled a surgery and signed on to face Boetsch in December, who has also beaten two top 10s, although not as dominantly.

Anderson has since flat-out stated he has no intention of ever fighting Weidman.

How hard is that to comprehend? Weidman was announced as the #1 contender even before he fights yet another top 5 fighter, and Anderson--from his own mouth, not via soares' nonsense-hole--has stated he has no intention of ever facing him.

Whether you're an Anderson fan or not--and I am, believe it or not--that's a fucking problem. It's a huge problem.



I actually think he'd probably beat Chris, but I take exception to him not being willing to fight him.



Not everyone is bitching about him not fighting Jones.

Not even close.

Sure, some people are complaining about it, but that's low-hanging fruit and easily dismissable.

The most valid criticism is that Anderson is looking for superfights against fighters that don't want it while his division--which has more viable fights today than it ever has--sits idle.

The biggest criticism Anderson faces is that he's not doing his job in defending the MW belt.


I don't know that anyone is trying to make you feel bad about that. I'm an Anderson fan as well, but I want him to be the best he can be; just as I wanted Fedor to be the best he could be. When Fedor followed M1 to oblivion, I didn't try to defend his decision. He had a point where he could have eaten crow and come to terms with the UFC, and he failed. It sucks, because I don't want Fedor to have faults; but he's human and he clearly does. Pretending that he doesn't, and focusing on the completely spurious criticism while ignoring the valid criticism makes you look far less intelligent than you probably are.



I have no idea what you're talking about here, so I'll leave it alone. Are you referring to Anderson's rematches or the ones Jones has yet to fight?


I'll be pretty clear about this: I feel Anderson should give up on the GSP fight. It literally does nothing for his legacy, it's purely a vanity fight that will net him money, but at the cost of his credibility.

A bigger fighter is supposed to beat a smaller fighter. Chasing the fight in the face of Georges' indifference makes him look like a punkass and a bully, and it's hard to watch.

But if it happens, it's not going to happen till the middle of 2013, which means the earliest Anderson could/would be defending his belt would be sometime around September of 2013, which comes out to something slightly worse than 3 defenses in 3 years.

And that's if he doesn't pursue a superfight with Jones.

That's a problem. 3 defenses in over 3 years is pathetic. You're expecting all the MW fighters--fighters who have already done more to earn shots than half the guys in Anderson's resume--to wait around while he takes on vanity fights.

Anderson has one obligation, and that's to defend the belt. He doesn't owe the fans nice soundbytes, or signatures, or even great performances or fights that he finishes in highlight reel fashion. But he does owe the fans, and the other fighters in his division, title fights. He has obligations as Champion.

And right now, he's showing every intention of shirking them.

rh

I agree with most of what you have said here. But I am still yet to see where the UFC came to Anderson offering him the fight with Weidman and he refused to sign a contract. Soares is an idiot so I won't even go down that road. How many times as Anderson said he wouldn't fight Jones? Or wouldn't fight in the LHW division? Or how many times has any fighter said they wouldn't fight someone but do when the money is on the table?

Now with all of that being said, the things I don't like about Anderson are some of what you have stated. I personally think he should fight anyone and everyone as I do of any champion in the UFC. I don't like the fact that he doesn't fight very often in MW when he rarely takes any damage. That is my biggest problem with him. But this "could" be credited to the UFC allowing this type of transition. When a fighter goes back and forth it becomes unfair to the other fighters having to wait. So why even allow it? My responses here are fueled by the posts that say he is ducking so and so or scared to fight so and so. That's just ridiculous in my opinion. It doesn't matter who he fought at LHW, he still moved up and fought where (in your own words) the bigger fighter is supposed to beat the smaller fighter....and he still wins.

Now I for one think the GSP, so called super fight, is just stupid. It makes no sense to me and never has. But then again, for Jones to take a "super fight" with Anderson isn't much different than Anderson taking one with GSP. There is a smaller fighter in both fights.

As far as the rematch comment, I was referring to Anderson not Jones. But I am starting to ramble here...

[rivethead]

I think what I'm trying to say is that I get frustrated when I hear people making excuses for Anderson. I'm a fan of his skillset, and I'd like him to be the best he can be.

I'd have been thrilled if the moment Henderson KTFO'd Bisping, Anderson pushed soares to the side and said "Bring it. You just earned a shot for another lesson, hope you bring a notebook and pencil." When Marquardt beat Maia a month later, he could have said "You're next." When Weidman diced up Munoz, if he said "Finally, a guy I can test my skills on."

But he doesn't.

Instead, we get fans still trying to make excuses about "who has he been offered a contract with that he never fought?"

Sure, it's not his job to go out and make fights. But it's not his job to let soares try to discredit opponents either, and he let's that go on incessantly. It would be easier to be an Anderson fan if he was legitimately a take-on-anyone-anytime-anywhere type of personality. It would be fantastic if he was even close to that, because his skills are clearly on that level.

But he as a person, is...not.

And the hard part is that loveblind fans making excuses and soares making nonsense seem to make him move even farther from that ideal.

rh

[TN94z]

Originally Posted by rivethead

I think what I'm trying to say is that I get frustrated when I hear people making excuses for Anderson. I'm a fan of his skillset, and I'd like him to be the best he can be.

I'd have been thrilled if the moment Henderson KTFO'd Bisping, Anderson pushed soares to the side and said "Bring it. You just earned a shot for another lesson, hope you bring a notebook and pencil." When Marquardt beat Maia a month later, he could have said "You're next." When Weidman diced up Munoz, if he said "Finally, a guy I can test my skills on."

But he doesn't.

Instead, we get fans still trying to make excuses about "who has he been offered a contract with that he never fought?"

Sure, it's not his job to go out and make fights. But it's not his job to let soares try to discredit opponents either, and he let's that go on incessantly. It would be easier to be an Anderson fan if he was legitimately a take-on-anyone-anytime-anywhere type of personality. It would be fantastic if he was even close to that, because his skills are clearly on that level.

But he as a person, is...not.

And the hard part is that loveblind fans making excuses and soares making nonsense seem to make him move even farther from that ideal.

rh

Okay, I can agree with that 100%. But, in my defense, I am not using the "contracts" as making an excuse. I am just stating that as fact. And as far as Soares....Anderson should have gotten rid of him a LONG time ago!! I agree with you there as well.

My main points here (that may or may not have been stated properly) are that I just honestly don't think it has anything to do with Anderson being "scared" as many have characterized him as being and that is what kills me. That added with the fact that many seemingly bash his skillset because of the certain fighters he has faced.

I would love nothing more than to see the emotion you describe from Anderson. I think that would bring much more appeal and less hate his way. But not everyone can pull that off nor does everyone care to pull that off. Sonnen finally got some kind of emotion from Anderson but look at what it took.

I think Anderson's skillset is unmatched by anyone in the UFC. If I were in Anderson's shoes, I would be calling folks out with much emotion, fighting as often as I could, moving all the way up to HW. That is just how good I think he is....but that leads me to agree with what you said above. But as far as moving up to LHW....picking and choosing takes on an entirely different meaning, but I won't go down that road as we will begin

Long story short, great response, great points, and we are on the same page pretty much....even though it seems like we are not.