Seriously, go back and read the threads. It was repeatedly said that while folks could live with Vitor getting the shot, if Sonnen gets it quickly it'll be inexcusable. RH, for example, was a frequent commenter to this effect and a lot of us echoed agreement. (Not trying to call you out RH, figure you'll be happy to point this out as well.)
Not sure anyone should be surprised by this thread at all. It's exactly the same comments as before, just replace "if Sonnen gets the shot" with "Sonnen got the shot."
I guess the only differences are that Vitor wasn't coming off a loss, he had 2 wins and also, it was a short notice fight that pretty much the entire LHW division turned down. This fight is pre-planned with plenty of time to find a legit contender. This is a money fight/spectacle done entirely for Fox and TUF ratings.
I really am not too bothered by it too my myself as I'm not interested in seeing any rematches for Jones in the near future. I'd rather see Jones fight Chael than Jones fight Machida, Evans, Shogun, Rampage, etc, even though I know they are more deserving, they got smoked by Jones and that is that, I accept that. The only rematch I wouldn't mind seeing is Vitor but no time soon and not before Hendo for sure. Same for Anderson, Vitor is the only rematch I'd care to see, due to the same reason for Jones, I just felt Vitor could have done better, but I might just be a Vitor mark.
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All in the reflexes Anderson Silva 5: TRT USERS 0 Hendo - Forrest - Nate - Chael... twice
How can we be mad at Jones for taking it when we cried about him not taking it at 151
Again, I'm not mad at Jones. I wasn't mad at him at 151, and I'm certainly not mad at him today. He's a kid, playing a grownups game, he's going to follow the money.
I'm not even mad at dana or the fertittas.
I'm disappointed, there is a difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakara=Excitement
What I took exception to was the OVER REACTION calling the UFC the WWE, saying how they are gonna quit watching MMA, that they are never gonna pay for a PPV again.
That isn't venting. That is pouting over spilt milk. Suck it up guys. I never heard ONE PERSON SAY ANY of these things when Vitor fought Bones. NOT ONE.
I don't think the short-notice Vitor fight is even remotely comparable to this. But hey, that pesky integrity is probably affecting my perception. Silly me, I'd rather have the belt mean something than nothing at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnchorPunch
Seriously, go back and read the threads. It was repeatedly said that while folks could live with Vitor getting the shot, if Sonnen gets it quickly it'll be inexcusable. RH, for example, was a frequent commenter to this effect and a lot of us echoed agreement. (Not trying to call you out RH, figure you'll be happy to point this out as well.)
Not sure anyone should be surprised by this thread at all. It's exactly the same comments as before, just replace "if Sonnen gets the shot" with "Sonnen got the shot."
I wasn't happy with the Vitor shot, but it was a far better choice than sonnen. Vitor has actually won at 205, not only in the UFC, but is a former champion. chael has done none of those things. Not only that, a short-notice bout is entirely different from one that is planned and promoted. A TUF coaching job actually highlights the debacle.
As Iole pointed out, zuffa really made it's bones when it strove to have it's belts mean something. That's when the UFC was at it's peak. But we've seen too many Kenny Florian/Uriah Faber hey-just-make-weight-and-you-get-a-shot title fights. We've seen too many cherry picking champions unwilling to face clear #1 contenders. And now we've got Overeem literally running away from a drug test, getting caught and failing it, and still getting a shot for his first fight back. Now we've got sonnen who has never even won a bout at 205 literally talking his way into as large-scale-promotion of a title bout as the UFC can do.
Seriously, when Iole has to be the one to point out the train is off the tracks, your train is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay the fuck off the tracks. It's like the village idiot telling you that your fly is unzipped...and then being right about it.
I'm not mad, and I haven't paid for a UFC card since they started counter-programming Affliction. But I've stopped hoping/pretending that there is a limit to the amount of money zuffa needs before they stop sacrificing the integrity of the sport for short term gain, and start looking to make it better. It's never going to happen.
Again, the analogy I used applys: it's like you heard about someone you were friends with turning tricks. You didn't want to believe the rumors, you hoped it wasn't true. But eventually, you go out for a pizza or something and there she is on the corner, all clownface and needle tracks.
It sucks. MMA has been great. But it could always have been better.
But now, it's getting worse, and it's too obvious to deny.
I find that sad.
rh
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All manner of men came to work for the News: everything from wild young Turks who wanted to rip the world in half and start all over again -- to tired, beer-bellied old hacks who wanted nothing more than to live out their days in peace before a bunch of lunatics ripped the world in half.
Not real happy with the matchup, because I don't like the precedent it has the potential to set. Personally, a big reason I like to watch MMA is to see the best mixed martial artists in the world fight each other - especially when a title is on the line.
Unfortunately, in this situation Sonnen has hyped his way into a title shot with absolutely no credibility behind him at 205. Yes, we have had title challengers before who haven't exactly been deserving, but there are degrees of undeserving. This title shot is at least according to my memory unprecedented.
This isn't a knock on Sonnen: good on him, I say. It's not his job to ensure the integrity of the UFC title challenger selection process. It's his job to get himself the best fights possible and realise his dream of holding a world title. Unfortunately, in this case I think he'll just go even further in cementing his legacy as Most Losingest Title Challenger in MMA.
I am saying this while being (I think) 100% cognizant of the business reasons behind this fight and the TUF season. It's going to get great ratings and the PPV will sell like gangbusters. If the goal of any business is to make money, then this is a slam dunk for the UFC.
Having said that, the UFC sells itself as being the premier MMA org on the planet. Part of being the premier MMA org on the planet involves having meaningful titles, surely? While I grasp that commercial drivers (putting asses in seats) are a part of matchmaking, I believe there's a balance to it. If I'm correct, then this is the most imbalanced title fight I can remember.
I guess my biggest fear is that this whole scenario makes a shitload of money, and the UFC goes out to replicate it. Other fighters can't help but see that Sonnen's approach is wildly successful, and who could blame them for seeking to emulate it? Personally, I don't want the UFC title picture to be about who talks the most smack, I want it to be about who kicks the most ass. Sorry if thinking that and posting it makes me melodramatic.
I was critical of Jones for not fighting Sonnen previously and I was also critical of the UFC for the part they played in the 151 fiasco. But a short notice scramble to save an event is a completely different animal to what's going on here, and I believe that the integrity of the UFC's title picture is worth more than better TUF ratings and more PPV numbers.
Ah well. Forrest needs an opponent now, so I might get one last Bonnar fight. Clouds, silver linings, etc.
I'll owe you a rep for this one mate. Very well put, I'm not particularly worried about it because I think anybody that start watching the sport or takes an interest in it after watching Jones and Sonnen on TUF will probably not understand the title challenger selection process, and will probably just assume that Sonnen deserved it somehow, and the UFC was making a logical decision.
I don't think it's something new fans would question straight away when they are trying to get to grips with all of the rules of the sport, and the technical aspects involved in fighting.
I'll owe you a rep for this one mate. Very well put, I'm not particularly worried about it because I think anybody that start watching the sport or takes an interest in it after watching Jones and Sonnen on TUF will probably not understand the title challenger selection process, and will probably just assume that Sonnen deserved it somehow, and the UFC was making a logical decision.
I don't think it's something new fans would question straight away when they are trying to get to grips with all of the rules of the sport, and the technical aspects involved in fighting.
Someone posted a link a while back with a quote from one of the UFC's marketing guy (I think) who said the the majority of the UFC's PPV audience are casual fans looking for a nights entertainment. So you're right: most fans will be happy with the fight, because they don't know any better and wouldn't care if they did.
That's different from the posters on this board who don't mind the matchup, because they are aware, but are happy anyway for various reasons.
I've come to the sad conclusion that none of us, none of us who post here are representative of the 'typical' UFC fan. By taking the time to create a login and discuss and debate MMA and the UFC we are showing more 'care' than the 'typical' fan. We're a minority subset of the UFC's fanbase.
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Rule 1: REMEMBER that you cannot reason someone out of an argument they did not reason themselves into in the first place. Rule 2: Albert Einstein once wrote a foreword endorsing a book rubbishing the theory of plate tectonics. History proved him wrong. Moral of the story? REMEMBER: We all say stupid stuff sometimes! Rule 3: NEVER attempt to mediate in a flame-war between GSP and BJ Penn nuthuggers debating GSP/Penn II. It won't end well.
Someone posted a link a while back with a quote from one of the UFC's marketing guy (I think) who said the the majority of the UFC's PPV audience are casual fans looking for a nights entertainment. So you're right: most fans will be happy with the fight, because they don't know any better and wouldn't care if they did.
That's different from the posters on this board who don't mind the matchup, because they are aware, but are happy anyway for various reasons.
I've come to the sad conclusion that none of us, none of us who post here are representative of the 'typical' UFC fan. By taking the time to create a login and discuss and debate MMA and the UFC we are showing more 'care' than the 'typical' fan. We're a minority subset of the UFC's fanbase.
This may be true, but every single person I've talked to in the past couple days, some coworkers, some friends, some die-hard fans, others more casual fans, think this fight is completely retarded.
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