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[BonesKnows]

Originally Posted by The Donosaur

Hendo was strikeforce champion, he beat Fedor, & he beat the previous champion in Shogun. Koch's accomplishments are obviously not in the same ballpark. There is a difference between unquestionably earning a shot, and being an ok choice. All that and all the stuff I already said about Chael, and Frankie not being a good comparison.

Fights in other weightclasses/promotions dont affect your ranking in your current division or organization. therefore, hendos wins over Fedor and being champion in strikeforce mean nothing in the UFC. Should we hold Hendo's loss to Jake sheilds against him?of course not so why should these other strikeforce fights affect what happens to him in the UFC?

Originally Posted by kalebarker

Sonnen is coming from getting his ass handed to him in the title fight at his optimal weight class. He may have fought at LHW before but MW is where he belongs. He is moving up to a weight class he doesn't belong in.

Frankie is coming off of two very close controversial decision losses in his last matches. He was just had multiple title defenses in a weight class he was undersized in. He is now going to his optimal weight class.

Frankie is also the biggest threat to Aldo. There are much more challenging matchups at LHW than Sonnen.

To sum it up:
Frankie Edgar +145
CHAEL SONNEN +625

A loss is a loss doesnt matter weather or not it was controversial or not. If that was the case we could use Sonnens performance in the first AS fight to show how he is worthy of fighting Jones (since he did something that has NEVER been done to the best MMA fighter of all time).

BETTING ODDS;

Matt Sera +700 (Winner)
GSP -1100

Frankie Edgar +650 (Winner)
BJ Penn -1100

Tito Ortiz +550 (Winner)
Ryan Bader -825

Joe Lauzon +444 (Winner)
Melvin Guillard -615

Junior Dos Santos +500 (Winner)
Fabricio Werdum -800

See where im going with this? Betting odds are for Vegas not deciding who should get to fight who.

[The Donosaur]

Yes wins in another weight class or promotion do matter. We can pretend they don't, but yeah they do.

[kalebarker]

Originally Posted by BonesKnows

Fights in other weightclasses/promotions dont affect your ranking in your current division or organization. therefore, hendos wins over Fedor and being champion in strikeforce mean nothing in the UFC. Should we hold Hendo's loss to Jake sheilds against him?of course not so why should these other strikeforce fights affect what happens to him in the UFC?

Of course fights in other organizations count. Hendo got two UFC title shots because of his pride titles. Pettis had a title shot before the Edgar rematches clusterfuck. Dana has said Cormier is close to a title shot despite having no UFC fights, same with Gilbert if he came over.

A loss is a loss doesnt matter weather or not it was controversial or not. If that was the case we could use Sonnens performance in the first AS fight to show how he is worthy of fighting Jones (since he did something that has NEVER been done to the best MMA fighter of all time).

Sonnens first performance against Silva is negated by him pissing hot. If Lutter had been jacked on testerone he probably would have hit that arm bar transition from mount.

BETTING ODDS;

Matt Sera +700 (Winner)
GSP -1100

Frankie Edgar +650 (Winner)
BJ Penn -1100

Tito Ortiz +550 (Winner)
Ryan Bader -825

Joe Lauzon +444 (Winner)
Melvin Guillard -615

Junior Dos Santos +500 (Winner)
Fabricio Werdum -800

See where im going with this? Betting odds are for Vegas not deciding who should get to fight who.

Just because it's a sport where anyone can catch lightning in a bottle doesn't mean they should be able to have a shot at the champ. Yes, just like every single fighter in the division Sonnen is capable of beating Jones. That is the nature of any sport where the match can end at any second. It doesn't mean it's not a stupid match up.

[AnchorPunch]

Originally Posted by BonesKnows

Fights in other weightclasses/promotions dont affect your ranking in your current division or organization. therefore, hendos wins over Fedor and being champion in strikeforce mean nothing in the UFC. Should we hold Hendo's loss to Jake sheilds against him?of course not so why should these other strikeforce fights affect what happens to him in the UFC?

Yes, we should. Most of us who discount that fight do it because it's part of Hendo's MW pattern of gassing and part of why he moved back to LHW. We absolutely don't do that because it was in lowly SF.

Fights in other promotions do count, it's about who someone fought. That's why Strikeforce HWs started off fighting in the top 10. It's why Alvarez will also fight a ranked fighter.

Originally Posted by BonesKnows

A loss is a loss doesnt matter weather or not it was controversial or not. If that was the case we could use Sonnens performance in the first AS fight to show how he is worthy of fighting Jones (since he did something that has NEVER been done to the best MMA fighter of all time).
[...]
See where im going with this? Betting odds are for Vegas not deciding who should get to fight who.

Odds have nothing to do with "controversy" and they absolutely are a reflection of perceptions about who should be fighting whom. Why? Because they are probabilities that reflect, amongst other things, rankings.

[sonofsteven]

If frankie manages to pull out an impressive victory I will have even less of an arguement against GSP's P4P statement.

[dbader08]

Originally Posted by BonesKnows

Your right its worse. Hes lost 2 fights in a row, has never even had a fight at FW while chael is coming off one loss and is going back to a division he has already faught in.

No legit contender for aldo?? Your right Korean Zombie isnt worthy of a shot at aldo, only frankie is.

People are only okay with this fight because they like Aldo and they like Frankie, for the other fight most people hate Jones and everyone hates Sonnen...

But i get how Sonnen fighting for the LHW belt delegitimizes the title at 205 but this doesnt delegitimize the title at FW...makes sense?

The thing is, Frankie didn't get finished in the fight, most people felt like he won the fight (the 2nd). Plus, there are way more contenders at LHW, and moving up in weight is harder than moving down in weight..every fight Frankie loses is always competitive, Chael always gets finished when he loses. It's easier to promote as an acceptable fight and it is more competitive on paper.