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[roaddawg]

Can you think of any reason at all why GSP couldn't fight Silva at 178 if his walk around weight is 185? I mean I understand that he is used to fighting at 170 but Silva is used to fighting at 180 (correct me if wrong).

Also I wanted to apologize to you for the other night about the gun range picture thing.

[CtGreat]

Originally Posted by Sakara=Excitement

I believe GSP stays around 185. Hes in shape year round.

His trainer said 195 in the last countdown video i believe.

[Rise]

Originally Posted by CtGreat

His trainer said 195 in the last countdown video i believe.

Probably about right I know he's been quoted as saying 192 before but also mentioning they have continually improved with his ability to cut weight.

[rivethead]

I've heard repeatedly that Georges typically walks around between 190 and 195, but after camp he begins his weight cut from between 185 and 190.

Originally Posted by roaddawg

Can you think of any reason at all why GSP couldn't fight Silva at 178 if his walk around weight is 185? I mean I understand that he is used to fighting at 170 but Silva is used to fighting at 180 (correct me if wrong).

I can't think of any reasons other than the same ones Anderson would have for not facing Jones, or Jones would have for not facing HW's.

Most Fighters want to keep every edge they can, and they really do not want to give up any edge to their opponent.

All three guys are calculated fighters. They want the most reward for any risk, and they have a LOT to lose anytime they don't win--actually, any time they don't dominate in a win.

It's not someone like BJ Penn who literally has a fight-anyone-anytime-anywhere mentality and trusts on his innate abilities to overcome anything. They're much more calculating than that, and considering Penn's record; it's helped them become more successful.

rh

[Kimbo> Rampage]

We all love Penn for that mentality... While it could have taken away from legacy, based on wins and losses.

Im a huge Penn and Hendo fan... their sytles and not focusing so much on size... They both fought with some of the best in higher classes. Few fights could replicate that... however GSP, Anderson, and Jones are some of the few that could and would actually find more success than those 2... They are the best P4P fighters... We want to see them all move up and challenge themselves...

I dont like the part where we try to pick and choose who does it though

[rivethead]

Originally Posted by rampage9712

I dont like the part where we try to pick and choose who does it though

It's the same as soares or Zahabi or Dolce trying to pick and choose as well.

If it's coming from anyone from the fighters themselves, it's because someone has something to gain from their sweat. The hangers-on get money, and fans get entertainment...but really, it comes down to the fighters and the matchmaker from the org, everything else is varying levels of bullshit. The best thing I can say about Zahibi or Dolce as they actually work to make their fighters better, as opposed to straight out parasites like soares, dana and other promoters.



In all sincerity, I don't know that I can say that Georges or Anderson are better than Penn p4p, at least, not the way that I was taught to interpret the concept--long before any of the fighters I'm talking about were coming into play.

If everything is equal in terms of size, weight/reach I think Penn has potential to beat anyone on the planet. He also has potential to lose to anyone on the planet, and that's what kills his acceptance into common perception as elite. But I think him stepping up pwn Hughes when Matt was considered elite p4p, stepping up to face an even larger Georges, that's something that simply isn't done by most fighters, and certainly not "smart" champions. It eclipses anything Georges has done in a pure pound-for-pound setting, and outstrips Anderson's wins at LHW, and Jones doesn't even get a mention as a runner up.

Then again, Penn is so inconsistent--not to mention polarizing--he's his own worst enemy, so it's difficult for most people to acknowledge the skillset he possesses.

I'm sure it'll be easy to dismiss my perception as coming from a Penn fan--although he's not one of my top 5 favorite fighters, and I often cringe at his interviews--or as hating on other fighters, but I think the concept of how people look at p4p is predecated entirely on whether they're winning--often against smaller opponents and not at the skillset that they actually illustrate.

But to put it another way, if Frankie drops down to FW and is dominant there, it will be an illustration of the exact opposite of the approach most of the UFC champions have taken.

rh

[Sniggles]

Penn won the first fight against GSP the judges were bad.

[W.Silva>C.Norris]

Originally Posted by rivethead

It's the same as soares or Zahabi or Dolce trying to pick and choose as well.

If it's coming from anyone from the fighters themselves, it's because someone has something to gain from their sweat. The hangers-on get money, and fans get entertainment...but really, it comes down to the fighters and the matchmaker from the org, everything else is varying levels of bullshit. The best thing I can say about Zahibi or Dolce as they actually work to make their fighters better, as opposed to straight out parasites like soares, dana and other promoters.



In all sincerity, I don't know that I can say that Georges or Anderson are better than Penn p4p, at least, not the way that I was taught to interpret the concept--long before any of the fighters I'm talking about were coming into play.

If everything is equal in terms of size, weight/reach I think Penn has potential to beat anyone on the planet. He also has potential to lose to anyone on the planet, and that's what kills his acceptance into common perception as elite. But I think him stepping up pwn Hughes when Matt was considered elite p4p, stepping up to face an even larger Georges, that's something that simply isn't done by most fighters, and certainly not "smart" champions. It eclipses anything Georges has done in a pure pound-for-pound setting, and outstrips Anderson's wins at LHW, and Jones doesn't even get a mention as a runner up.

Then again, Penn is so inconsistent--not to mention polarizing--he's his own worst enemy, so it's difficult for most people to acknowledge the skillset he possesses.

I'm sure it'll be easy to dismiss my perception as coming from a Penn fan--although he's not one of my top 5 favorite fighters, and I often cringe at his interviews--or as hating on other fighters, but I think the concept of how people look at p4p is predecated entirely on whether they're winning--often against smaller opponents and not at the skillset that they actually illustrate.

But to put it another way, if Frankie drops down to FW and is dominant there, it will be an illustration of the exact opposite of the approach most of the UFC champions have taken.

rh

Guys like Penn and Dan Henderson are pretty much the only p4p greats we've ever seen in MMA, for exactly the reasons you've stated. Both are willing to fight above their "natural" weights, and are very successful there.

[Sniggles]

The question you raise RH is whether p4p should be based on accomplishments or skill. I think Silva is far more skilled than Penn is, yet has not taken the career risks that Penn has. Were the p4p list objectively based on skill level, Silva would undoubtedly be higher than Penn.

[Sakara=Excitement]

Originally Posted by W.Silva>C.Norris

Guys like Penn and Dan Henderson are pretty much the only p4p greats we've ever seen in MMA, for exactly the reasons you've stated. Both are willing to fight above their "natural" weights, and are very successful there.

While he stayed at HW, Fedor was usually always the smaller fighter in the ring/cage.