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[Palma]

Originally Posted by The Natural994

Out of everyone on that list he could replace Joe Williams...He is on that list for where he went to school and having the shit he did post college factored in... I'm not saying he wasn't GREAT in college but what he did in college doesn't quite stack up to Jones.. Collegiately Jones' resume stacks up better than Williams. Winning 3 national titles in two different weight classes is insane!!! OW of the tournament too!! I mean c'mon...These "lists" are always biased. He's just on the short end of the stick.

Same thing with Abas...Jone's COLLEGIATE resume is just as strong. The bottomg line the EWL doesn't get the recognition and Jones didn't continue wrestling after college....Therefore he's off the list.

You did not just compare Greg Jones to Stephen Abas. Now your just being crazy.

And how can you say these lists are always biased? I search for all kinds of shit about college wrestling and this is the only list I have ever seen like this so what other lists do you have?

[The Natural994]

Originally Posted by Palma Wrestler

You did not just compare Greg Jones to Stephen Abas. Now your just being crazy.

LoL you must be a west coast guy....

Abas was a force...Fun to watch. One of my ALL time favs.

Same thing Greg Jones though in my opinion. Abas won slightly more convincingly...but the results are the same in the end... I REALLY wonder wtf happened to Jones ?!?!

I think he could have been great in MMA or even attempted to qualify for the Olympics....

[The Natural994]

Originally Posted by Palma Wrestler

And how can you say these lists are always biased? I search for all kinds of shit about college wrestling and this is the only list I have ever seen like this so what other lists do you have?

Not JUST exclusive to wrestling lists.

Any list for any sport achievements are always weighted higher to things accomplished in the past. "The Good Ole Days" are always viewed with more mystique. Atheltic accomplishments are like fine wine and get better with age in any sport.

[Palma]

Originally Posted by The Natural994

LoL you must be a west coast guy....

Abas was a force...Fun to watch. One of my ALL time favs.

Same thing Greg Jones though in my opinion. Abas won slightly more convincingly...but the results are the same in the end... I REALLY wonder wtf happened to Jones ?!?!

I think he could have been great in MMA or even attempted to qualify for the Olympics....

Abas >>> Jones. I am from the same leauge (bay area) as Abas, but that's not why he is better. To tell you the truth, Abas wasn't even the best wrestler from our area until he went to college. He was second of third best.

And Joe Williams is more deserving because not only is he a three time national champ but he placed 2nd the year he wasn't champ and Jones got knocked out of the first round by Rashad. That is why he isn't on there. Everyone else is a 4 time all american and Jones is not. If Koscheck was healthy that year Jones may not have even been a three time National Champ.

Jones was great, but if you are going just off records alone then even Greg Jones is not one of the top 5 wrestlers of all time.

[The Natural994]

Originally Posted by Palma Wrestler

Abas >>> Jones. I am from the same leauge (bay area) as Abas, but that's not why he is better. To tell you the truth, Abas wasn't even the best wrestler from our area until he went to college. He was second of third best.

And Joe Williams is more deserving because not only is he a three time national champ but he placed 2nd the year he wasn't champ and Jones got knocked out of the first round by Rashad. That is why he isn't on there. Everyone else is a 4 time all american and Jones is not. If Koscheck was healthy that year Jones may not have even been a three time National Champ.

Jones was great, but if you are going just off records alone then even Greg Jones is not one of the top 5 wrestlers of all time.

Good point. I totally forgot his only two losses at nationals were in the same freaking year!! Otto and FUCKING RASHAD EVANS. His sophomore year. Touche on that point....I can't argue with that...

But, I guess Aside from that blemish...and you hitting my weak spot with Kos being in baaaad shape going into nationals his senior year..and taking it in my opinion if he would have been healthy....because he barely freaking beat Kos at the EWL's....Anways....

I'm still going to hold firm that the past is always given toooooooo much respect and that winning titles in two different weight classes is a HUGE accomplishment. He's certainly deserving on an honorable mention....

FUCK though...Rashad sucked.

Jones had to be hurt his soph year...I'm going to research that...

[Palma]

Originally Posted by The Natural994

Good point. I totally forgot his only two losses at nationals were in the same freaking year!! Otto and FUCKING RASHAD EVANS. His sophomore year. Touche on that point....I can't argue with that...

But, I guess Aside from that blemish...and you hitting my weak spot with Kos being in baaaad shape going into nationals his senior year..and taking it in my opinion if he would have been healthy....because he barely freaking beat Kos at the EWL's....Anways....

I'm still going to hold firm that the past is always given toooooooo much respect and that winning titles in two different weight classes is a HUGE accomplishment. He's certainly deserving on an honorable mention....

FUCK though...Rashad sucked.

Jones had to be hurt his soph year...I'm going to research that...

Post it on a new thread in the grappling forum. I don't think he was hurt. I remember reading that Rashad just really overpowered him; if you can believe that.

We should also do our own top 5 list or top 10 for P4P wrestlers considering entire careers (High School through the Olympics).

[Dork8503]

Originally Posted by Palma Wrestler

Post it on a new thread in the grappling forum. I don't think he was hurt. I remember reading that Rashad just really overpowered him; if you can believe that.

We should also do our own top 5 list or top 10 for P4P wrestlers considering entire careers (High School through the Olympics).

I dont know a whole lot about wrestling just most of my friends wrestled threw highschool and college so i watched alot of it.

I would say Cael is 1 on that list but maybe im stupid but his records speak for them selfs.

[The Natural994]

Originally Posted by Palma Wrestler

Post it on a new thread in the grappling forum. I don't think he was hurt. I remember reading that Rashad just really overpowered him; if you can believe that.

We should also do our own top 5 list or top 10 for P4P wrestlers considering entire careers (High School through the Olympics).

Well it looks like he just flat out lost...Everett knocked him out. Damn, that really surprises me. For some reason I totally forgot.

[The Natural994]

Originally Posted by Dork8503

I dont know a whole lot about wrestling just most of my friends wrestled threw highschool and college so i watched alot of it.

I would say Cael is 1 on that list but maybe im stupid but his records speak for them selfs.

Its not even close. I wish I could explain how unbelievable that is to non-wrestling people.... Div I Wrestling is such a grind on the body and mind and there are so many injuries and your mental toughness has to be right for every match...There are just so many variables in wrestling its unbelievable he never lost...I mean there are so many upsets every year and the competition is so tough ... I truly don't think it will ever be done in my lifetime again.

[azfightfan]

Had the opportunity to watch Abas his senior yr at nationals and wow, he appeared to just goof off or get lazy and still beat everyone easily. My dad hadn't seen him before and didn't believe me when I pointed Abas out durin his first match because he looked like crap on only beat the guy by a very small margin; I think about 2-3points while he just basically did nothing holding onto the lead. It was frustrating and amazing a guy of his caliber would wrestle like that. A Div. 1 wrestler friend of mine said he did this all the time and that he wouldn't even hardly warm up for his matches.