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[kaiz77]

Well....this Monday a buddy of mine will be training with me and I just wanted to know if anyone could give me some tips....

Hes a very good wrestler...state finals every year....just very quick and solid...

obviously he is still uncomfertable off of his back...so I wanna get him there whenever I can.....so far Ive had good luck with the flower sweep... and thats about it......he always explodes and stands in my guard (still closed)...but I cant off balance him from there.....any suggestions....or good off balancing techniques that involve hooking a leg er something?....

so far Im just thinking these are my options......
keep him really tight...and somehow unable to pop up to his feet...
flower sweep...
heel hook when he stands....

any help at all guys would be great!!!....thank in advance....
Happy training...

[Palma]

Well, I would pull gaurd on him. I think rubber guard works good on allot of wrestlers since they usually don't posture up when they are in full guard.

Just don't let the wrestling get the better of you. Sue he will have good takedowns, takedown D, top control, and a good base. But there are allot of things that go against him as well. Wrestlers give up arms like crazy. I've been using wrist locks on a wrestlers lately. They know they can usually power out of a shoulder lock or roll with the Gogo, but you can't really do shit about a wrist lock.

I think leg locks work well for wrestlers as well.

[Noob]

Originally Posted by kaiz77

Well....this Monday a buddy of mine will be training with me and I just wanted to know if anyone could give me some tips....

Hes a very good wrestler...state finals every year....just very quick and solid...

obviously he is still uncomfertable off of his back...so I wanna get him there whenever I can.....so far Ive had good luck with the flower sweep... and thats about it......he always explodes and stands in my guard (still closed)...but I cant off balance him from there.....any suggestions....or good off balancing techniques that involve hooking a leg er something?....

so far Im just thinking these are my options......
keep him really tight...and somehow unable to pop up to his feet...
flower sweep...
heel hook when he stands....

any help at all guys would be great!!!....thank in advance....
Happy training...

Best bet would be to ask a wrestler. I'm sure Palma could give some insight on something like this.


From my perspective, the things that have worked best for me:


Full guard. The full guard is not something that is used in wrestling in the same sense as BJJ, so it's a new beast for wrestlers. Use that to your advantage. Closed guard, tight hooks.


It depends on the gi. If you've got the gi on, you're at a little more of an advantage as most wrestlers are not accustomed to wearing it. Without the gi I generally make sure to be extra diligent about my under and overhooks. I don't want to give him any room to breathe or create opportunity.


Flower sweep, using underhooks to take the back, guillotines. These seem to work best for me against wrestlers. They are notoriously hard to sweep, but I almost won't even bother trying to submit them off of my back as it's a big toss up.


If you're wearing the gi, then gi sweeps, gi chokes, using the lapels to trap arms and set up attacks. These are things that a wrestler with no BJJ experience will not know to defend until they have trained for a while.



One of my favorite submissions that I almost never get to work, but on wrestlers seems to be particularly effective, is transitioning directly from butterfly guard to a kneebar. Hook the leg like you're going to work a sweep, then take out a hook and flip yourself upside down. You can transition straight to a kneebar, heel hool, or an ankle lock depending on how they react.



Wrestlers also like to keep their heads down, which present opportunities at times. There is a particular choke from guard when their head is on your stomach or chest that works well. It doesn't always submit them, but it makes them lift their head without fail. It doesn't have a name that I know of, but you basically slide your hand under their throat and wiggle it through, then take your other hand and push down on their head. If they don't move, you end up kind of slicing their throat with the blade edge of your hand.

[Palma]

Originally Posted by Noob

One of my favorite submissions that I almost never get to work, but on wrestlers seems to be particularly effective, is transitioning directly from butterfly guard to a kneebar. Hook the leg like you're going to work a sweep, then take out a hook and flip yourself upside down. You can transition straight to a kneebar, heel hool, or an ankle lock depending on how they react.

That's interesting... I haven't gotten to work with Butterflyguard for the most part but that sounds like a good stragtegy. I think wrestlers in general are careless with their limbs because the concentrate so much on positioning and top control.

Lol, I never thought I would be more into BJJ then wrestling...

[Noob]

Originally Posted by Palma

That's interesting... I haven't gotten to work with Butterflyguard for the most part but that sounds like a good stragtegy. I think wrestlers in general are careless with their limbs because the concentrate so much on positioning and top control.

Lol, I never thought I would be more into BJJ then wrestling...

Butterfly guard is a bitch. It seems to up the stakes for every movement. If you're better than the other guy this is good, because you force him to act. But if you're not as good then it can get you into a lot of trouble. Closed guard is much safer, but in the long run it just doesn't offer you as many options.


And yeah, wrestlers with little or no BJJ experience tend to be careless with limbs. Legs even more so in my experience. It only takes a few armbars to learn not to leave your arms out. But legs are just harder to take care of. You have to use them all the time, and it's easy to forget about them as being vulnerable.



The school I'm at now is primarily gi-based, which I don't particularly like but it is a good learning experience. There are so many more setups with the gi once you get accustomed to the open guard. Just takes a long time to get them down. I'm still just barely scratching the surface.




Lol, Palma converting to the dark side. Haven't heard about your training much lately, you still enjoying it?

[NixHex]

Originally Posted by Noob

Butterfly guard is a bitch. It seems to up the stakes for every movement. If you're better than the other guy this is good, because you force him to act. But if you're not as good then it can get you into a lot of trouble. Closed guard is much safer, but in the long run it just doesn't offer you as many options.


And yeah, wrestlers with little or no BJJ experience tend to be careless with limbs. Legs even more so in my experience. It only takes a few armbars to learn not to leave your arms out. But legs are just harder to take care of. You have to use them all the time, and it's easy to forget about them as being vulnerable.

I've fallen in love with the rubber guard on opponents of all shapes and sizes, I'm more comfortable in the rubber guard than I am in full guard.

My butterfly guard is pretty weak, but I have pushed off the hips of wrestlers extending my legs, and when they push back (wrestlers always will) I roll under and isolate a leg.

I think wrestlers are careless with limbs because they're more worried about balance and basing out, which leads to isolated limbs.

[Noob]

Originally Posted by g'nightXX

I've fallen in love with the rubber guard on opponents of all shapes and sizes, I'm more comfortable in the rubber guard than I am in full guard.

I always tell myself I'm going to work on my rubber guard before class. But then I get in and start rolling, and I just end up staying tight and establishing my hooks and looking to pick apart the other guy's posture.


I don't have very long legs, so especially against bigger guys it's hard for me to get into the rubber guard. I haven't yet developed a reliable entry for it, one that I can count on or set up. I usually end up forcing butterfly guard, or half butterfly, and working on picking apart their base.


I wish I had some better entries for it. It's harder for me to work in no-gi because of the slippery nature of not wearing the gi, but I would like to be able to use it more often. Just hard on bigger guys.

[Palma]

Originally Posted by Noob

Lol, Palma converting to the dark side. Haven't heard about your training much lately, you still enjoying it?

It's been great. We have so many good fighters comming out of our gym. On thursday I went up against this purple belt who was the national champ in the US last year. He kicked my ass all over but I learned allot from it.

We never get to work on takedowns which is good for me since I really need to work on everything else.

My neighbor/friend/nogi instructor has taken me under his wing and gives me a private lesson every other week on top of practicing two to three times a week. I actually gave up lifitn weights I have been training and running so much.

I may compete soon in the Masters division. We don't have any old whitebelts my age so I think rolling with the young guys all the time might give me an edge.

I got my first Gogo on Tuesday. It was sweet, I was sparing against this kid who is a great high school wrestler and got my guard, pulled rubber guard, and slipped it in. It was cool, everyone who saw was cheering.

[Noob]

Originally Posted by Palma

It's been great. We have so many good fighters comming out of our gym. On thursday I went up against this purple belt who was the national champ in the US last year. He kicked my ass all over but I learned allot from it.

We never get to work on takedowns which is good for me since I really need to work on everything else.

My neighbor/friend/nogi instructor has taken me under his wing and gives me a private lesson every other week on top of practicing two to three times a week. I actually gave up lifitn weights I have been training and running so much.

I may compete soon in the Masters division. We don't have any old whitebelts my age so I think rolling with the young guys all the time might give me an edge.

I got my first Gogo on Tuesday. It was sweet, I was sparing against this kid who is a great high school wrestler and got my guard, pulled rubber guard, and slipped it in. It was cool, everyone who saw was cheering.

Very cool. Your first gogo is always a memorable thing. I still remember mine.


That's very cool that you're going to compete. You'll have to keep us posted. It's always good to hear about everyone else and what they're doing.



So, can we expect to see some Saulo Ribeiro, or Marcelo Garcia, or one of the Gracies in your sig sometime soon then? Lol, if you're getting serious about BJJ, it's only fitting that you have an appropriate sig.

[Palma]

Originally Posted by Noob

Very cool. Your first gogo is always a memorable thing. I still remember mine.

That's very cool that you're going to compete. You'll have to keep us posted. It's always good to hear about everyone else and what they're doing.

So, can we expect to see some Saulo Ribeiro, or Marcelo Garcia, or one of the Gracies in your sig sometime soon then? Lol, if you're getting serious about BJJ, it's only fitting that you have an appropriate sig.

I would probably go with Jake Sheilds at this point, lol... If I move up in belts and get good then I can sport the elite BJJ fighters.