MMA News Forums » Sports & Training » K-1, Kickboxing

[mmhmm]

I'm sorry if this is the wrong place, I didn't know where else to post it. I'm a huge Machida fan, have been for 3 years or so. I've taken boxing, muay thai, and BJJ. Also a bit of sambo and russian judo. I really want to learn some karate. What exactly is the difference between kyukoshin (sorry I know that's wrong) and shotokan?? And what exactly is Shodokan Aikido?? (I heard that's what Machida and Shogun train in). Are there any good fighters of Shodokan Aikido I can watch?? Thanks a lot.

[Intellectual]

honestly i dont know. i'll look into it.

i took up Tae Kwon Do/Karate as a kid, and here it was bullshit. Apparently it was Tae Kwon Do with a mix of Kyukoshin Karate.

I left after a few years. I was only about 7 or 8. The striking aspect was really fun, and we did tons of sparring, but i couldn't tell what i was learning?

the place closed down like 8 years later. never really found out what style i was learning.

Outside i remember had a big sign that said Tae Kwon Do, inside it said something like Kyokushin karate.

bullshit.

[Bigshanks666]

I havent the slightest idea. Good luck with that.

[phunt]

Shotokan is the original form brought to mainland japan from okinawa by funikoshi. It basically incorporates linear movement and utilizes the theory of one strike = one kill. This is why in traditional shotokan karate tournaments there is a point system and the action is stopped after a clean technique/strike has landed. Kyokushin was created by masatatsu oyama, a student of funikoshis. He found that the best way to train was with full contact strikes and to not stop after a clear technique had landed, as it was more realistic.
Kyokushin is really the genesis for japanese kickboxing and thats why a guy like GSP will stand and trade while a guy like Machida prefers to land pin point strikes at a time.

Machida is traditional shotokan karate as his father is a 5th degree black belt in the JKA (japanese karate association).

[Problematique]

Originally Posted by Dr. Leg Lock

honestly i dont know. i'll look into it.

i took up Tae Kwon Do/Karate as a kid, and here it was bullshit. Apparently it was Tae Kwon Do with a mix of Kyukoshin Karate.

I left after a few years. I was only about 7 or 8. The striking aspect was really fun, and we did tons of sparring, but i couldn't tell what i was learning?

the place closed down like 8 years later. never really found out what style i was learning.

Outside i remember had a big sign that said Tae Kwon Do, inside it said something like Kyokushin karate.

bullshit.

Yeah I did Tae kwon Do as a kid.
Could've got my Black belt, but I didn't like it and I quit.
Haha....still; brown belt - black tip

lol
sits at the top of my wardrobe

[ultimate_mayhem]

Originally Posted by phunt

Shotokan is the original form brought to mainland japan from okinawa by funikoshi. It basically incorporates linear movement and utilizes the theory of one strike = one kill. This is why in traditional shotokan karate tournaments there is a point system and the action is stopped after a clean technique/strike has landed. Kyokushin was created by masatatsu oyama, a student of funikoshis. He found that the best way to train was with full contact strikes and to not stop after a clear technique had landed, as it was more realistic.
Kyokushin is really the genesis for japanese kickboxing and thats why a guy like GSP will stand and trade while a guy like Machida prefers to land pin point strikes at a time.

Machida is traditional shotokan karate as his father is a 5th degree black belt in the JKA (japanese karate association).

Well stated, could not have said it better my self.....
I am a freak when it comes to tradtional martial arts. I am a black belt in kenpo karate, nearly a first degree, and am training part time in Kyokushin in which I am nearly a brown belt....

[marekny144]

It's not directly on point, but I thought it'd be ok to ask here all you guys who actually practice a martial art: what is the real deal with the black belt designation? It's obviously supposed to mark a very high level of expertise in a given art, but what I don't understand is how people who look like they struggle to put their socks on or kids are given black belts. I read all the time how some prodigy 10-year-old kid who played clarinet with an orchestra at the age of 5 also has a black belt in karate. Is it a joke? Shouldn't you have to display a level of strength and stamina simply beyond capability of a prepubescent kid? Also, are black belts exclusive domain of a particular teaching school or are they regulated by some outside associations to provide uniformity and objectivity, which would perhaps explain why they seem to be given out so randomly, if the former. Thanks for shedding any light on the subject.

[Otomosix]

Originally Posted by marekny144

It's not directly on point, but I thought it'd be ok to ask here all you guys who actually practice a martial art: what is the real deal with the black belt designation? It's obviously supposed to mark a very high level of expertise in a given art, but what I don't understand is how people who look like they struggle to put their socks on or kids are given black belts. I read all the time how some prodigy 10-year-old kid who played clarinet with an orchestra at the age of 5 also has a black belt in karate. Is it a joke? Shouldn't you have to display a level of strength and stamina simply beyond capability of a prepubescent kid? Also, are black belts exclusive domain of a particular teaching school or are they regulated by some outside associations to provide uniformity and objectivity, which would perhaps explain why they seem to be given out so randomly, if the former. Thanks for shedding any light on the subject.

Each school (for the most part) dictates how they want to hand out belts.

That's the general problem I've noticed with most martial arts schools in the United States (as well as other Western nations, I'm sure). Most schools have to fight (no pun intended) to survive month-to-month so in order to maximize their student retention and income, they essentially hand out belts (including black belts) more frequently than what is actually earned.

Most of the "successful" schools (i.e. the ones who aren't financially starving every month) are ones that sponsor (or are sponsored by) professional MMA competitors.

On the original topic of which karate school/system is best to join? I think none. They're all mostly a waste of time (similar to Tae Kwon Do) for someone who wants to learn effective fighting techniques. About the only benefit you get out of them is how to make your body (especially the legs) more flexible to perform kicks (but you're probably learning some really ineffective kicking techniques from karate and Tae Kwon Do, too). I'd recommend Muay Thai kickboxing as the only true effective kicking art (and not to be confused with the watered down American kickboxing style). I think the best (and most famous) school out there in the United States may be Sidyodtong on the East Coast (Boston?). Mark Delagrotte (sp?) is the shit when it comes to striking coaches.

On a related note, it's also my personal opinion that most BJJ and Judo schools are watered down because of their heavy reliance on gi-training. There just aren't that many schools that are strictly no-gi. Why? Well, it's because the gi offers more techniques and therefore a student must spend more time at the school (and spend more money) to learn all the gi-related moves. The problem is, of course, that most realistic situations will render gi-related techniques useless. Worst case scenario, you spent too much time practicing gi-moves that your no gi-technique sucks against an average aggressive street thug.

The only good strictly no-gi school that I have even heard of is Eddie Bravo's 10th Planet Jiujitsu in Los Angeles. Some gi schools offer once or twice a week no-gi sessions on top of their standard gi sessions but that usually means their no-gi experience is somewhat limited.

This is all my personal opinion and you're more than welcome to disagree (wouldn't be the first time). Oh and my background? 1st degree black belt in Tae Kwon Do straight out of South Korea (and utterly useless). Watching Royce Gracie fight in the first couple UFCs taught me more (and cost me way less).

[Nakos]

I always heard about the belts at least BJJ is that the longer you train with your white belt the darker and darker it gets to then eventually become black. So washing your belt is bad luck.

A example of a paid Karate or Tae Kwon Do getting paid is watch the movie jingle all the way with Arnold Governor of California son gets a belt by breaking a box so yea in my opinion most Karate and Tae Kwon Do is for show like the stuff on ESPN where you see those kids doing all those flips ect...

I like training without a GI seems more natural for MMA but I do wear a GI just do not apply collar or GI chokes that I couldnt get in MMA. We have Gi and No GI classes about six days a week three No Gi and Three Gi along with MMA after No GI classes and GI. So I usually Train with and Without a Gi all the time and I will tell you the Gi is a lot harder to train in than No Gi at first.

[crosshearttat]

Isn't one of them one where you can punch people in the hips? I just remember seeing that gsp is from one of those schools and I heard Bas say one time that it's one of the best bases for striking because of the physical demands. I think he also said one of the gracies did a 100 man something in the same type of karate.