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[JadedX]

Originally Posted by rivethead

Please don't tell me that you're pretending the ref messed up in the first Mir/lesnar fight. I've made a vow to neg any/everyone who perpetuates that shit, and I'd rather not include you in the pogram.

lesnar was warned before the fight, he was warned during the fight, and he still dropped four or five flailing punches to the back of Mir's head.

It was a good standup.

rh

I won't tell you I'm pretending the ref messed up the first Mir/Lesnar fight, because I don't pretend. I'm an adult, that shit is for kids. You clearly took what I said out of context, which you've been doing alot lately, singling me out, for some off the wall reason, but whatever, that shit doesn't phase me in the slightest. All I was saying, "the ref gave Mir a break, from being completely destroyed by Lesnar." Read my initial post where I quote Unreal.

I've watched the fight a million times over, and I've yet to see the ref warn Lesnar during the fight. But maybe I've missed something through out that million times, so if you could show me that gif that has sound where it shows the ref warning Lesnar during the fight, then and only then I'll retract my statement. Until then though, I won't. So, add me to whatever, I'm not like some of these posters who'd get emotionally scarred by it. I'm not that fool.

One has to wonder though, why did Lesnar even petention to the Athletic Commision for that said ref not to be involved in his fights. Mind boggling, no? And even if so the ref did, Lesnar was like a possessed maniac going Macho Man like on Mir, his adrenaline, testosterone level must've been blown out of the arena. Did it ever occur to anybody that, maybe that was the case as to why he didn't hear the ref? Whatever, I just want to see that gif with sound. Once I have, then I'll retract, and even say I was wrong. I'm not e-tough, I can admit when I'm wrong.

[pantomime horse]

Originally Posted by JadedX

I won't tell you I'm pretending the ref messed up the first Mir/Lesnar fight, because I don't pretend. I'm an adult, that shit is for kids. You clearly took what I said out of context, which you've been doing alot lately, singling me out, for some off the wall reason, but whatever, that shit doesn't phase me in the slightest. All I was saying, "the ref gave Mir a break, from being completely destroyed by Lesnar." Read my initial post where I quote Unreal.

I've watched the fight a million times over, and I've yet to see the ref warn Lesnar during the fight. But maybe I've missed something through out that million times, so if you could show me that gif that has sound where it shows the ref warning Lesnar during the fight, then and only then I'll retract my statement. Until then though, I won't. So, add me to whatever, I'm not like some of these posters who'd get emotionally scarred by it. I'm not that fool.

One has to wonder though, why did Lesnar even petention to the Athletic Commision for that said ref not to be involved in his fights. Mind boggling, no? And even if so the ref did, Lesnar was like a possessed maniac going Macho Man like on Mir, his adrenaline, testosterone level must've been blown out of the arena. Did it ever occur to anybody that, maybe that was the case as to why he didn't hear the ref? Whatever, I just want to see that gif with sound. Once I have, then I'll retract, and even say I was wrong. I'm not e-tough, I can admit when I'm wrong.

Could crowd noise be to blame?

Referee Steve Mazzagatti Discusses Lesnar-Mir Fight -- An MMAjunkie.com Interview | MMAjunkie.com

I just watched it again and I don't see how we could have heard it. No reason to doubt the ref either. Brock, even though he lost position due to the point, regained it. He lost due to Mir's technique. Not because of the ref's decision to deduct a point.

[goodtimes]

Originally Posted by rivethead

You have no idea what you're talking about. First, brock was warned before the fight. Second, he was warned again, immediately after the first shot to the back of the head--there was a gif posted here on which you could hear it clearly. Third, he continued to flail wildly with more strikes to the back of Mir's head...at least three shots AFTER the warning. Anyone who keeps perpetuating the myth of a bad standup is risking getting negged by me every time this shit crops up. I'm not hating on lesnar. I don't think he'll make the same mistake by flailing wildly, he's shown more patience in subsequent fights, and he's 50/50 to take the rematch...

...but the first Mir fight was a good standup and people need to get the fuck over it.

rh

OMG a voice of reason! I try to tell my friends the same thing, its obvious that the ref was trying to warn Lesnar, who ignored him and hit Mir two more times in the back of the head. Of course just like most of the other guys on the forums, they ignore reason and continue to say it was a bad standup.

Also, if Mir was so close to being finished, how come Brock couldn't stop him after dropping him right after the standup? If a guy is on his way out, you would think getting dropped by a right hand would be enough to finish the fight.

Going into the fight, I think Lesnar was basically an unknown quantity. Mir had an idea of his athleticism and wrestling ability, but he was clearly taken by surprise. Once Lesnar realized he couldn't just overwhelm Mir with his sheer strength and risked gassing himself out trying, he tried to stand up in Mir's guard, giving up an easy sub.
I think Mir wins by submission again, he is not that much smaller then Lesnar, and his Jiu-Jitsu game is leaps and bounds ahead. I don't buy the reasoning that "you get caught once by a sub and you'll know better next time". Jiu-jitsu is an art-form that takes countless hours of drilling and sparring to pick up the nuances involved. For example Frank Trigg, getting caught in RNC again and again first by Hughes and then GSP, if it were so easy to learn submission defense I think he would have no?

Standing, I think Mir has much more technical boxing, his hands looked awesome against Nog. Lesnar just seems to throw out that huge right cross over and over. Its fast and powerful, but I think everyone expects it now, and Mir will definately be circling away from it.

Where Lesnar is stronger I think is cardio. Lesnar's chin has not really been tested, but he at least looks durable, and my guess is he will be even harder to knock out then Nog (just speculation though). If Lesnar can keep from getting submitted while taking Mir down often, Lesnar can grind Mir down and either pull out a TKO in the later rounds or win by decision. It will definately be an interesting fight, I hope Mir wins though, I can't stand Lesnar because of how he acted after his fight with Herring.

[goodtimes]

Originally Posted by pantomime horse

Could crowd noise be to blame?

In my opinion, you shouldn't need the ref to tell you to stop hammerfisting a guy in the back of the head.

[JadedX]

Originally Posted by pantomime horse

Could crowd noise be to blame?

Referee Steve Mazzagatti Discusses Lesnar-Mir Fight -- An MMAjunkie.com Interview | MMAjunkie.com

I just watched it again and I don't see how we could have heard it. No reason to doubt the ref either. Brock, even though he lost position due to the point, regained it. He lost due to Mir's technique. Not because of the ref's decision to deduct a point.

I've never doubted Mazzagatti and never have I said Brock Lesnar loss due to the stand-up. Not once have I said any of that. People keep pointing that towards me as I have, yet I haven't. All I said was "the ref gave Mir a break," and agreed to "the ref saved Mir." And that's only because I haven't and still haven't seen where Mazzagatti warns Brock Lesnar for illegal shots to the back of the head. I'm also not disputing the illegal shots, I'm just disputng the warning during the fight, because I didn't see any, and the same goes for Joe & Mike, who also didn't see Mazzagatti warn Brock Lesnar. Joe even made it heard during commentary. However, if Mazzagatti said he did warn Brock Lesnar during the fight, then fine, I'll take his word for it.

Yes, you shouldn't need the ref to tell you stop hammerfisting a guy in the back of the head, but it happens, and thats why theres refs. If fighters didn't need refs to tell them stop and whatnot, then whats the use of refs? In the heat of the moment, anything can happen, sometimes unintentional, sometimes intentional. It happens. Fighting isn't like typing a post, it's completely different. Guys are pumped up with adrenaline, ready to explode. They can't do everything by the book, even if they'd like too. How many times have a fighter unintentionally kicked or kneed his opponent in the balls? It happens. How many times a fighter unintentionally hammerfisted or striked his opponent in the back of the head? It happens. Not every fight suppose to go according to plan. And MMA isn't scripted.

[goodtimes]

When you phrase it "the ref saved Mir", it does sound like you think it was a bad stand up. But I think I understand what you're saying, that if the fight was not stood up and Lesnar stayed in Mir's guard, he would have GnP him out? I don't think Lesnar would be able to finish Mir in his guard in the first round, and Lesnar doesn't seem to be very good at passing guards yet. But if he stays close and stacks the guard whenever Mir threatens with a sub, he could wear Mir down considerably and finish him in later rounds, kind of like what GSP did to BJ.

[JadedX]

Originally Posted by goodtimes

When you phrase it "the ref saved Mir", it does sound like you think it was a bad stand up. But I think I understand what you're saying, that if the fight was not stood up and Lesnar stayed in Mir's guard, he would have GnP him out?

Finally, shit. Didn't think anybody would actually get it. You are legend.

I don't think Lesnar would be able to finish Mir in his guard in the first round, and Lesnar doesn't seem to be very good at passing guards yet. But if he stays close and stacks the guard whenever Mir threatens with a sub, he could wear Mir down considerably and finish him in later rounds, kind of like what GSP did to BJ.

Fair enough.

[pantomime horse]

Originally Posted by goodtimes

In my opinion, you shouldn't need the ref to tell you to stop hammerfisting a guy in the back of the head.

I was merely guessing as to why we couldn't hear the ref. The ref was much closer to Brock so he had a much better chance of hearing him.

JadedX was asking about proof of the warning. I'm guessing crowd noise was why we don't have 'video evidence' to prove or disprove.

[Tapout 07]

This should be a good match. Lets see who wins. This should be an exciting year for HW division.