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[kickbox]

Originally Posted by rivethead

Way to completely miss the point and just restate your erroneous assumptions.

Thank you for playing, but I'm pretty sure there's a nice comfy bridge somewhere with your name under it.



Written in crayon.



With the "b" backwards, just like mom taught you.

rh

You are talking as if Im a charlatan. You impecunious fool, You think someone like Dos Santos can stand up with a pure elite class k1 striker? I know what you are trying to say, that sometimes mma striking can become different, since you might fear the takedown and get punched to the ground, but Dos santos isnt the takedown artist, so what you are implicating is that Dos Santos can strike with Overeem also becuase of the external factors of mma. Also Dos Santos isnt capable of beating a standup artist like Overeem or competing in k1, his mma striking should stay where it is.

[joeyP]

I truly think that Overeem beats JDS because of height, reach, and versatility of strikes. JDS so far has only shown boxing to me, not any sign of mixing it up. Plus, I don't see JDS taking down Overeen

Cain is well rounded enough to definitely beat Overeem, but he's gotta set up his takedowns well or he could eat a knee on the way in.

[rivethead]

Originally Posted by kickbox

You are talking as if Im a charlatan. You impecunious fool,

Yay...someone discovered Thesaurus.com. Kudos! Hopefully tomorrow, you discover spell check!

You think someone like Dos Santos can stand up with a pure elite class k1 striker? I know what you are trying to say, that sometimes mma striking can become different, since you might fear the takedown and get punched to the ground, but Dos santos isnt the takedown artist, so what you are implicating is that Dos Santos can strike with Overeem also becuase of the external factors of mma. Also Dos Santos isnt capable of beating a standup artist like Overeem or competing in k1, his mma striking should stay where it is.

Again, you are basing all of your statements on assumptions. To break it down for you once again, people assumed lesnar was a better wrestler than Carwin and Cain because he was a DI NCAA champ and they weren't. Newsflash...he's not a better wrestler than either of them.

I'm not saying Dos Santos is a better striker. I'm saying we can't tell, because we haven't seen him tested in a pure striking match. He could very well be competitive in K1, I haven't seen anything that would preclude him from being successful.

I'm also saying that he beats AO in any MMA match 8 out of 10 times, because AO is entirely pedestrian on the ground. This is not an assumption, it's a glaring hole in his game that he's illustrated repeatedly. Yes, he's an elite striker. No, he doesn't transition well between disciplines. And no, his ground game is marginal at best.

rh

[Pasha K]

Well I think Overeem beats JDS, JDS has very good boxing but IMO Overeem is better striker. About the ground game, Overeem has an OK ground game and we have not seen JDS´s ground game yet. But from I have seen I have Overeem winning the match

Cain vs Overeem would be very interesting, Cain was able to takedown Brock so I think he is capable of taking down Overeem too. I cant say any real predicition, Cain would have a lot of trouble in the feet but if he manages to takedown Overeem the match would probably end there.

[MickeyKnox]

Wrong...

We'll never know anytime soon.

[earle]

I think Overeem beats JDS. I don't have a good reason, just gut instinct. JDS has bullied everyone in the standup, but what will happen when he meets someone he can't bully around?

I would have to give Cain the advantage against Overeem but I wouldn't be that surprised if Allistair pulled it off. He won't run and cower in the stand up the way Brock did, and he could end it with one punch. Overeem has finished most of his HW opponents pretty quickly so I think endurance could come into play. Although Allistair doesn't seen to gas it's different when someone is on top of you throwing punches and you're constantly trying to get back to your feet. Yet Overeem could slap on that guillotine (he's got a pretty good one) and with his strength and arm size he could maybe tap Cain out. But unless it happens right at the beginning of the fight, I doubt it.

Cain via TKO round 3

Interesting that Bas Rutten ranks Overeem #1, he's positive Allistair could take out both guys and Brock too. Dutch bias?

[kickbox]

Originally Posted by rivethead

Yay...someone discovered Thesaurus.com. Kudos! Hopefully tomorrow, you discover spell check!




Again, you are basing all of your statements on assumptions. To break it down for you once again, people assumed lesnar was a better wrestler than Carwin and Cain because he was a DI NCAA champ and they weren't. Newsflash...he's not a better wrestler than either of them.

I'm not saying Dos Santos is a better striker. I'm saying we can't tell, because we haven't seen him tested in a pure striking match. He could very well be competitive in K1, I haven't seen anything that would preclude him from being successful.

I'm also saying that he beats AO in any MMA match 8 out of 10 times, because AO is entirely pedestrian on the ground. This is not an assumption, it's a glaring hole in his game that he's illustrated repeatedly. Yes, he's an elite striker. No, he doesn't transition well between disciplines. And no, his ground game is marginal at best.

rh

Actually Im of higher acumen than most people, so I wouldnt be saying otherwise. Alistaire Overeem is good on the ground, he also has very devastating submissions, something JDS doesnt have. For the record JDS hasnt been training his whole life the art of striking, Overeem has, and Overeem trains like a k1 elite striker, also has the skills of a k1 elite striker. JDS doesnt have that ability since he hasnt focused on striking aspect his whole life. Now let me repeat myself, JDS doesnt train or doesnt have the ability or skills to become a k1 elite fighter. What you are saying is congruent to contemplating that the klitchko brothers are entering MMA, and thus since we dont know what JDS is capable of, he might outpunch them?!! Thats pretty much what you are getting at
JDS isnt on the level that AO is at, unless somehow the supposed ufc striker is going become a WORLD CLASS SUBMISSION EXPERT AGAINST AO!Dont forget to take in to account ability and or genetics, JDS simply doesnt have that. AO is a world class striker, training and being able to train as a world class striker,thus Dos santos is on a smaller pedestal than AO.

[kickbox]

Nonetheless Rivethead you seem to have a clear intuition on fighting yourself, instead of flaming me like they do in Sherdog lol, you answer kindly like an educated person would and I thank you! But facts stand, We know AO has been training his whole life on how to strike, we know he is a very impressive striker, we also know he is world class. JDS is at best an MMA striker, who most likely would fail at competing with higher level strikers simply becuase he doesnt train like a world class striker. We can assume JDS isnt capable of fighting any higher level strikers becuase of that reputation he has as a good mma striker. But like you said, its (possible) that if he ever goes in to pro boxing or compete in k1 or anyother striking art/company that he could surprise us.

[Masscore]

Personally I think Overeem is the new Barnett, a competely overrated fighter who is on a nice win streak but beaten no one of name value.

Overeem has a history of having a horrible gas tank and not being able to hold up any kind of pace after 5 mins. How do we think that would fair with the cardio monster that is Cain? If Overeem could not finish of Cain in the first 3 minutes he would be in a whole lot of trouble. And who says he would even get the chance to finish off Cain? The way Cain buzzsaws through people there is a good chance Overeem would be done in the first three minutes and never have a chance to get any offense off.

I think the same with JDS. Overeem would have his moments in the first 3 mins and then tire out and just be a sitting duck for JDS.

To be totally honest I think a lot of guys would beat Overeem pretty badly. Fedor, Werdum, Lesnar, Mir... pretty much anyone that can either get him to the ground or just handle the assault for three minutes.

[kickbox]

Originally Posted by Masscore

Personally I think Overeem is the new Barnett, a competely overrated fighter who is on a nice win streak but beaten no one of name value.

Overeem has a history of having a horrible gas tank and not being able to hold up any kind of pace after 5 mins. How do we think that would fair with the cardio monster that is Cain? If Overeem could not finish of Cain in the first 3 minutes he would be in a whole lot of trouble. And who says he would even get the chance to finish off Cain? The way Cain buzzsaws through people there is a good chance Overeem would be done in the first three minutes and never have a chance to get any offense off.

I think the same with JDS. Overeem would have his moments in the first 3 mins and then tire out and just be a sitting duck for JDS.

To be totally honest I think a lot of guys would beat Overeem pretty badly. Fedor, Werdum, Lesnar, Mir... pretty much anyone that can either get him to the ground or just handle the assault for three minutes.

Its about skill, AO is indeed a superior striker and has a ground game. cardio wise he is great, he was in k1 for godsake. So he can compete and defeat the best the ufc has to offer...........the best the ufc has to offer lmao. Cain isn the face of the ufc at this point.