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  • 05-01-2013, 03:55 PM
    FedortheCan
    Quote Originally Posted by Kimbo> Rampage View Post
    I hope we see it... but after GSP/Silva... as it wouldnt make sense to do that after Jones/Silva.

    Jones would kill Anderson.... I think Anderson could actually make it to a decision though. He would take a lot of damage, but is very tough. But he would be on his back a long time and Jones has great GNP.

    I do see Jones wanting to test his standup vs. Anderson for a short time and of course that is Anderson's best chance. He has a better chance of finishing Jones' standing than anyone else period... 205-down

    But the second Jones feels trouble, he would get Anderson down... And with a good, conservative gameplan I actually believe he could have some success keeping Anderson at a distance standing.



    Styles make fights... Look at how Vitor lasted(even though he got dominated) against Jones... Had him in an armbar and weathered Jones's GNP storm(comparatively speaking to his other opponents). He lasted 4 rounds. while Anderson finished Vitor quick in the first.
    I see your stay didn't last long again for some reason, but I will respond anyway. MMA math is pointless. Just because one guy did something to X fighter doesn't mean a bigger or better fighter will do something better/faster against that same X fighter. That's my whole point
  • 05-01-2013, 09:46 AM
    Kimbo> Rampage
    I hope we see it... but after GSP/Silva... as it wouldnt make sense to do that after Jones/Silva.

    Jones would kill Anderson.... I think Anderson could actually make it to a decision though. He would take a lot of damage, but is very tough. But he would be on his back a long time and Jones has great GNP.

    I do see Jones wanting to test his standup vs. Anderson for a short time and of course that is Anderson's best chance. He has a better chance of finishing Jones' standing than anyone else period... 205-down

    But the second Jones feels trouble, he would get Anderson down... And with a good, conservative gameplan I actually believe he could have some success keeping Anderson at a distance standing.

    Quote Originally Posted by FedortheCan View Post
    So using yours and Iron's logic, then what does it mean since Silva needed a miracle triangle the first time he beat Sonnen and a dumb spinning move by Sonnen the 2nd time Silva beat him when Jones totally dominated Sonnen and only needed one round to be him??? Hmmmm
    Styles make fights... Look at how Vitor lasted(even though he got dominated) against Jones... Had him in an armbar and weathered Jones's GNP storm(comparatively speaking to his other opponents). He lasted 4 rounds. while Anderson finished Vitor quick in the first.
  • 05-01-2013, 07:23 AM
    CtGreat
    Quote Originally Posted by roaddawg View Post
    Absolutely as Bonnar is a tough son of a bitch. Anderson Silva has world class striking... Jon Jones doesn't.

    Even if you don't like or respect the Bonnar example one would have to question Jones' fight with Belfort where he almost got submitted. Anderson Silva knocked Belfort the fuck out.

    Silva is simply a better fighter than Jones. They will never be on the same level. Its almost like trying to compare Ali to RJJ, Michael Jordan to Kobe.
    What Silva has done is irrelevant. I believe you are delusional if you think Bonner would last more than 5 minutes against Jones if they had a rematch. The Jon Jones of now is worlds apart from the Jones that faced Bonnar.
  • 05-01-2013, 05:46 AM
    FedortheCan
    Quote Originally Posted by roaddawg View Post
    Absolutely as Bonnar is a tough son of a bitch. Anderson Silva has world class striking... Jon Jones doesn't.

    Even if you don't like or respect the Bonnar example one would have to question Jones' fight with Belfort where he almost got submitted. Anderson Silva knocked Belfort the fuck out.

    Silva is simply a better fighter than Jones. They will never be on the same level. Its almost like trying to compare Ali to RJJ, Michael Jordan to Kobe.
    So using yours and Iron's logic, then what does it mean since Silva needed a miracle triangle the first time he beat Sonnen and a dumb spinning move by Sonnen the 2nd time Silva beat him when Jones totally dominated Sonnen and only needed one round to be him??? Hmmmm
  • 05-01-2013, 05:39 AM
    roaddawg
    Quote Originally Posted by CtGreat View Post
    Do you honestly believe Bonnar would last more than 1 round against Jones now??
    Absolutely as Bonnar is a tough son of a bitch. Anderson Silva has world class striking... Jon Jones doesn't.

    Even if you don't like or respect the Bonnar example one would have to question Jones' fight with Belfort where he almost got submitted. Anderson Silva knocked Belfort the fuck out.

    Silva is simply a better fighter than Jones. They will never be on the same level. Its almost like trying to compare Ali to RJJ, Michael Jordan to Kobe.
  • 05-01-2013, 05:09 AM
    CtGreat
    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Triangle View Post
    Jones fought Bonnar and couldn't put him away. He dominated him for three rounds and The American Psycho took it the entire fiight. Silva KO'ed Bonnar in one round.

    Before I thought Jones would have The Spider's number but after watching both fighters fight a common opponent I'm not to sure. I'd rather watch this figth than Silva GSP.
    Do you honestly believe Bonnar would last more than 1 round against Jones now??
  • 05-01-2013, 01:46 AM
    RearNakedStroke
    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Triangle View Post
    Jones fought Bonnar and couldn't put him away. He dominated him for three rounds and The American Psycho took it the entire fiight. Silva KO'ed Bonnar in one round.

    Before I thought Jones would have The Spider's number but after watching both fighters fight a common opponent I'm not to sure. I'd rather watch this figth than Silva GSP.
    MMA math can be very misleading. You have to take into account style match ups. Silva was a terrible matchup for Bonnar. Bonnar is a tough scrappy fighter that is tough to put away, but his standup is also very sloppy. Put that against one of the most accurate strikers and 9 times out of 10 it goes very badly. Just look at Forrest vs Silva.

    You also have to take into account the fact that when Jones took on Bonnar he was at the very beginning of his career going against a seasoned veteran. When Silva took on Bonnar he was a current champ and one of the top fighters in the sport taking on an opponent in Bonnar that was on his way out (I believe he actually had already said he was retired before he agreed to fight Silva, but I could be wrong).
  • 05-01-2013, 01:11 AM
    rivethead
    “I am number one in my weight class but number two P4P in the public eye.
    The public eye needs a vision test pretty badly. I hope it's not operating heavy machinery with that kind of myopia.

    Quote Originally Posted by MMAtt View Post
    I'm not sure if beating up the smaller guy makes you the better P4P fighter, but I'd still love to see the fight
    It doesn't make a better p4p fighter, but the public will suck it up anyway. When Georges used size as well as skill to dominate Penn in the second fight, most people--erroneously--saw that as a huge p4p gain for Georges.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trodden View Post
    ...but if Silva wins? And in decisive fashion, does he become the undisputed greatest of all time, regardless of how his career ends?
    I don't think there will ever be an undisputed greatest of all time, and I think the ending of his career would always be a factor. Even if he beats Jones, he could still stumble like Fedor, and the public is incredibly [misled and] unforgiving.

    Quote Originally Posted by TBEAR View Post
    Most people have Anderson GSP and Jones above Cruz and Aldo...just saying IT is very subjective
    I have Georges and Anderson, I do not have Jones ranked above either Cruz or Aldo. His skillset still has a lot of holes, even if he has plenty of time to fill them. But he's relying on size and athleticism over technical prowess right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by CtGreat View Post
    Donosor, yes Jones would've out wrestled Charles without the reach advantage. It's not as though he was doing ankle picks or throws. He shot in for single legs, doubles legs, and grinded him against the cage. His reach advantage was hardly a factor.
    His reach comes into play in sonnen's inability to set up a shot from a realizable distance. I don't think sonnen is a great wrestler--he has a great shot, thought--but I don't think Jones is great either. I don't even think he's above average in terms of his submission grappling.

    But again, he's got plenty of time to fill technical holes. He's dedicated to improvement, and doesn't seem overly distracted.

    I read something about Anderson signing a 10 fight extension, though I haven't checked to see how reputable that was...but if Anderson has Jones anywhere on his bucket list, it should be sooner, rather than later. The more Jones grows in technique, the more exposure he has to world-class training, the more dangerous his size becomes...and the older and slower Anderson is going to get.

    I'd give the bout to Anderson 7 out of 10 times if it happens in the next 12 months. After that, the odds begin to shift dramatically for me.

    rh
  • 05-01-2013, 12:49 AM
    Iron Triangle
    Jones fought Bonnar and couldn't put him away. He dominated him for three rounds and The American Psycho took it the entire fiight. Silva KO'ed Bonnar in one round.

    Before I thought Jones would have The Spider's number but after watching both fighters fight a common opponent I'm not to sure. I'd rather watch this figth than Silva GSP.
  • 04-30-2013, 11:19 PM
    roaddawg
    Quote Originally Posted by SimpleJack View Post
    I know p4p is very subjective. That being said, I'm a longtime boxing fan and have been watching MMA since UFC 1 (on VHS BABY!) and have followed both sports pretty religiously over the years.

    My PERSONAL view on P4P has always been this: If all fighters were of the same weight class (hence POUND FOR POUND), whose skillset, drive, and determination would stand above the others and make them the best. It's always been kind of a way to value smaller fighters when boxing often focused on the HW division. Roy Jones Junior in his prime clearly embodies the P4P argument IMHO.

    I think Anderson has made the most compelling argument for his seat at the top of that list. Honestly, he has beaten a former champ and two decent veterans in the weight class above his own. However, Jones' and GSP's domination of top contenders make a case for them as well.

    So, in response to your post, I don't think length/size has as much to do with "POUND FOR POUND" as simply weight.
    Neither Jones or GSP have moved up in weight to fight anyone in top 5 let alone top 10. Also both GSP and Jones usually enjoy a size advantage over their opposition especally Jones.

    Because of Jon's size advantage he will never belong to any P4P list unless he moves up and remains just as dominant at HW. Jon Jones is skilled don't get me wrong but his physical attributes I believe play a big part of his victories.

    When size meets skill you get Jon Jones.
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