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Topic Review (Newest First)

  • 09-16-2006, 02:55 PM
    Punk Ass
    Ken was pretty trash as far as MMA standards are concerned. His ground game was mediocre, his stand up sucks balls, hell he was Royces highlite real. That's why Frank left him and started learning from other guys and became a monster, because Ken just never had what it took to be the best. And would never have been UFC champion if Royce would have stayed.
  • 09-16-2006, 05:39 AM
    ortiz#1
    Quote Originally Posted by gracie jui-jitsu guy
    In his prime Ken couldn't get taken down by a much bigger and better wrestler than Ortiz: Dan Severn. Remember ufc 6? Now Ortiz, he was just state champion. Dan Severn was an olympic wrestler, among the best of the best. And he was a 260lbs beast. And he still couldn't take down Shamrock. So, could Ken, in his prime, be taken down by Ortiz? I think not. Ortiz would either have to beat him on the feet or he may even end up getting taken down by Ken. Now I'm talking about back in the day when Ken had a super-fast shoot (he was known as a
    "shootfighter" back then) and would train like an animal for months just for one fight. He'd bring in sparring partners that would simullate his opponents abilities. That's how he beat the, at the time, heavily favored Severn in that fight. Now back then, Ken was an athlete in his prime with great submission skills. I don't, however think the Ken of back then could have submitted Ortiz. Ortiz trains with Dean Lisner and is very submission savy. Ortiz's stand-up is better than Ken's in his prime but that may just be because back then Ken trained mostly on the ground due to most fights just ending up there early. Who knows what kind of stand-up Ken would have had back then had he spent more time training at it. I believe a fight between the Ken back then and the Ortiz of now would end up with Ken trying to take Tito down and possibly succeeding. If he didn't succeed in the initial scramble Ken would just end up pulling Ortiz into his guard and begin working from there. He wouldn't get any submissions but he would eventually sweep Tito. Remember, back then there were no wieght classes so Ken wouldn't have to dehydrate himself a day before the fight. I've always felt that's affected Ken's performance against Tito in their fights, to a degree. Some guys just don't recover fast enough from the hell they put themseves through to make wieght. Some do and some don't. Now there were also no rounds back then so, after Ken's eventual sweep of Tito, Ken would remain on top and just try to ground and pound his way to a decision, which he would. So that's how I see a match between Ken in his prime vs the Tito Ortiz of now ending up. Of course the Ken of today is a far cry from the Ken of yesteryear. He doesn't train like he used to either because his body is too banged-up to withstand it or because he just doesn't have the heart to do what it takes to be the best anymore. I think today he's just living off his name and looking for a big payday, which the Ortiz fights are giving him. I see this fight ending in the first round, Tito doing what he always does, the shoot followed by the ground and pound and the ref letting it go a little longer this time before finally stopping it.
    ken was a steriod machine back in the day before they tested for it , that is the only reason he was so strong and noone knew submissions back then he was not that good he fought alot of nobodys in the ufc had a couple good fights thats it never won a tournament or even finshed one he was practiccaly given the superfight belt then lost it just as quick!!
  • 09-16-2006, 12:10 AM
    Dan0
    Quote Originally Posted by prophet665
    ...To paraphase:
    Pay them, and they will come.
    VERY GOOD.

    The UFC is 13 years old. Most of us go thru puberty at that age and at that point, especially for boys, all their brain cells end up somewhere below the belt and they are thinking about one thing.

    Well that one this is what I think the UFC is doing to their under paid fighters.

    (How 'bout it Clint, are we okay with that???)
    ________________________________________
    "The will to win is not as great as the will to prepare to win."

    "...the way of the future...the way of the future...the way of the future...the way of the future..."
  • 09-15-2006, 11:33 PM
    prophet665
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan0
    Clint, I acknowledge, and I thank you for your generosity.

    Tito v Sham is not something I want to see.

    I understand a fighter having to ďBring something to the tableĒ and I believe over the years, there are plenty of fighters that have brought plenty to the table, but Zuffa keeps going for the low budget fighters, just to fill the card. MMA is NOT new anymore. Look at how many forums there are, how many web sites, how much information there is about MMA

    Look, I know I donít have to pay for the PPV if I donít care for the fight card (and I know the Tito v Sham is NOT on PPV), but thatís not my point.

    There is just so much more the UFC has to offer. Iím not saying one organization is better than another, because each has its own way and venue.

    What I am saying is that the UFC could be sooooooooo much better than it is by bringing MORE ranked fighters (and it doesnít matter whoís forum is ranking them) to the card. They can afford it.

    If we, the fan, canít state our feelings on the quality of the fight card on these forums, then I guess Iím missing the boat, and better go back to washing dishes.

    At the chance of repeating myself, Iím NOT a UFC v Pride guy. I like both. I do think the UFC could be a whole lot better.

    Agreed 100%

    The only thing I have to add is that it seems that the payouts are smaller in the UFC as compared to PRIDE. If they were to raise the payouts, I think you would be surprised at who would show up at a UFC event.

    To paraphase:
    Pay them, and they will come.
  • 09-15-2006, 10:02 PM
    Storm442
    Well written DanO !
  • 09-15-2006, 09:53 PM
    Dan0
    Clint, I acknowledge, and I thank you for your generosity.

    Tito v Sham is not something I want to see.

    I understand a fighter having to “Bring something to the table” and I believe over the years, there are plenty of fighters that have brought plenty to the table, but Zuffa keeps going for the low budget fighters, just to fill the card. MMA is NOT new anymore. Look at how many forums there are, how many web sites, how much information there is about MMA

    Look, I know I don’t have to pay for the PPV if I don’t care for the fight card (and I know the Tito v Sham is NOT on PPV), but that’s not my point.

    There is just so much more the UFC has to offer. I’m not saying one organization is better than another, because each has its own way and venue.

    What I am saying is that the UFC could be sooooooooo much better than it is by bringing MORE ranked fighters (and it doesn’t matter who’s forum is ranking them) to the card. They can afford it.

    If we, the fan, can’t state our feelings on the quality of the fight card on these forums, then I guess I’m missing the boat, and better go back to washing dishes.

    At the chance of repeating myself, I’m NOT a UFC v Pride guy. I like both. I do think the UFC could be a whole lot better.
    _____________________________________________
    "The will to win is not as great as the will to prepare to win."

    "...the way of the future...the way of the future...the way of the future...the way of the future..."
  • 09-15-2006, 09:00 PM
    prophet665
    Tito in the 1st round if he takes Ken to the ground.

    Tito in the 2nd round if he stands up for the entire first round.

    Ken has a magical Cinderella chance to take this by getting a leg lock during a mount transition.
  • 09-15-2006, 07:26 PM
    Storm442
    I would like to see Ken win, but would that cancel the Tito vs. Liddell fight?

    I guess in a perfect world:
    Ken would win with punches.
    Ken would shut up about it forever.
    Tito would have a shread of respect for the older fighters (the UFC originals)
    Tito would still get to fight Chuck.

    Too much to ask?
    Ha-ha...
  • 09-15-2006, 06:33 PM
    Boo
    Quote Originally Posted by The Iceman
    Damn I wish it was some way that Ken could pull this off...... GO KEN!!!
    Kewl144, the sentiment didn't go to waste, because this is my little dream world.

    Then in my perfect world they will both shut up, and peace will be restored.
  • 09-15-2006, 06:03 PM
    Kewl144
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastiff_owner
    you're messing with Kewl144's dream world. we all know tito will win. Let Kewl have his moment in the sun right before reality hits.
    I meant the dream of Shamrock shutting the hell up after losing again. I know he doesnt have a snowballs chance in hell and I cant wait to see him beaten yet again.
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