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  • 12-29-2010, 01:49 PM
    joeodd2
    sorry guys but I don't buy that, so far from what ya'll are describing is more like Ultimate Fighting than Mixed Martial Arts....the fighters are capable of controlling themselves, no one has asked them to do it yet. That's the only reason fighters don't control themselves. I also think this is one of the reasons why some Traditional Martial Artists look down on MMA. Martial Arts is about self dicipline and control, the more this happens, it will take just one really bad punch to send some one to the ER and then to the grave. Imagine seeing a UFC fight on the news with a guy taking 3 or 4 extra shots after he'd been knocked out? And the headline reads, Cage Fighter dies after receiving punches while unconscious. This is something that MMA can easily avoid by holding fighters accountable for their actions in the ring. We penalize low blows, and other illegal moves, why not extra shots?
  • 12-28-2010, 10:38 PM
    Dan
    Quote Originally Posted by beau420 View Post
    It's true.

    Cain wouldn't be champ if flash knockdowns were a cause for stoppage (Cain vs Kongo)

    There is a fine line between an early stoppage and getting struck an extra 2+ times....or getting choked for an extra few seconds. All depends on how reliable and how educated the referees are.
    Exactly, I mean the referee is the person who is completely in charge of the fighters in a fight. I mean fighters are docked points (if they ignore previous warnings) if they do not engage properly in the fight because they are encouraged to fight, and continue to fight (ie: strike, or grapple, improve their position or push the action in some other way) and to ONLY stop when the referee deems the fight over or to call a time-out. This gets a lot more complicated when you hand some sort of 'power' over the fighters by effectively saying 'if you think he's out, then just stop hitting him and the ref will call it off' because then you are allowing the fighters to decide something that should ONLY be decided objectively by the referee.

    The issue here is not with the fighters, as I said, their job is to go in, fight, and continue to fight until an end is called, not to decide how well the other guy is. Knock-downs and 'rockings' can look worse than they are in many cases, and sure, extra shots to a knocked-out opponent are never nice to see, but an educated and high-level referee can usually jump in and stop it before any real extra damage is caused.
  • 12-27-2010, 07:16 PM
    beau420
    Quote Originally Posted by Xanatos View Post
    i can think of a bunch of times a fighter has been rocked and fallen down almost lifeless, only to be fully aware and back up within a couple seconds, if the ref doesn't stop it, it's still going, so if the fighter wants to be noble and assume he's finished, and not follow up with more punches, he just let his opponent get back up and into the fight, instead of winning it.

    i don't like to see someone get nailed in the face four times after he's clearly unconscious, but that responsibility is solely on the referee.
    It's true.

    Cain wouldn't be champ if flash knockdowns were a cause for stoppage (Cain vs Kongo)

    There is a fine line between an early stoppage and getting struck an extra 2+ times....or getting choked for an extra few seconds. All depends on how reliable and how educated the referees are.
  • 12-27-2010, 05:59 PM
    Xanatos
    Quote Originally Posted by joeodd2 View Post
    How about this one?

    Fighters who give extra shots to Knocked Out Opponent?

    Ok most people can tell in less than a second when a guy is knocked out cold. Many times before he even hits the ground. But what really looks bad for MMA, is when someone gets knocked out and his opponent continues to try and beat his face in. Hell that's not acceptable behavior in most street fights, so why is it tolerated in MMA?

    I've heard the "adrenaline" excuse, but honestly if are going to be in a sport called "Mixed Martial Arts" then maybe you should learn how to control yourself? May show just a bit more discipline and restraint? I mean most of these guys claim to be "martial artists" so maybe it's time to hold them to that standard. Those who don't claim to be martial artist may need to start acting like one or find another line of work. Otherwise we should call the sport what that jackass congressman in New York calls it, Ultimate Fighting.....
    i can think of a bunch of times a fighter has been rocked and fallen down almost lifeless, only to be fully aware and back up within a couple seconds, if the ref doesn't stop it, it's still going, so if the fighter wants to be noble and assume he's finished, and not follow up with more punches, he just let his opponent get back up and into the fight, instead of winning it.

    i don't like to see someone get nailed in the face four times after he's clearly unconscious, but that responsibility is solely on the referee.
  • 12-27-2010, 02:55 PM
    jody
    Probably a lack of education on the detractors' part.
  • 12-27-2010, 02:39 PM
    TBEAR
    Scott Coker

    SF having champs with worthless belts.

    ^^^^These two are EPIC FAILS

    o yeah and judging
  • 12-27-2010, 07:25 AM
    joeodd2
    Quote Originally Posted by kickass32 View Post
    Just curious as to peoples thoughts on the sport....there are a few things, I think we can all agree on, that aren't doing the sport any favours. The sport is "over the hump" I think in being repected as a "real" sport, but still has many detractors and people who still see it as a barbarian sport...what do you guys think is the single most detrimental thing to the sport...what is hurting our sport the most right now???

    1/ Poor judging...making a mockery out of many decisions...seemingly almost every show.

    2/Steroids and other illegal drugs

    3/ Shady fly by night organizations failing to pay their fighters...australia and D.R.......

    4/Dana White....too much swearing, too many broken promises to fighters...promised title shots etc...cutting fighters maybe too early...

    5/Strikeforce...their inability to make any reasonable fights that actually mean anything, turning their titles into meaningless scraps of metal.

    6/Lack of significant pay structure...yes many fighters are making a decent living...even a very good living, but many others are only making 5-10 K per fight...some even less.

    7/Other.......feel free to add anything else you may feel is a huge negative on the sport

    I was hoping to add a poll to this, but it didn't allow me to...mods????
    How about this one?

    Fighters who give extra shots to Knocked Out Opponent?

    Ok most people can tell in less than a second when a guy is knocked out cold. Many times before he even hits the ground. But what really looks bad for MMA, is when someone gets knocked out and his opponent continues to try and beat his face in. Hell that's not acceptable behavior in most street fights, so why is it tolerated in MMA?

    I've heard the "adrenaline" excuse, but honestly if are going to be in a sport called "Mixed Martial Arts" then maybe you should learn how to control yourself? May show just a bit more discipline and restraint? I mean most of these guys claim to be "martial artists" so maybe it's time to hold them to that standard. Those who don't claim to be martial artist may need to start acting like one or find another line of work. Otherwise we should call the sport what that jackass congressman in New York calls it, Ultimate Fighting.....
  • 12-27-2010, 04:49 AM
    LefthookStcrook
    Judges- All it would take is roughly 10-15 educated judges to really change the number of bad decisions in a year. Sure some would still be debateable, but only the real close ones. I doubt we'd have more Hammill/Bisping and Garcia/Phan type of outcomes with that many more educated judges.

    LnP-I have no problem with a dominate wrestler, what I have a problem with is a dominate wrestler who doesnt attempt to pass, and hardly attempts to strike. Theres lots of things that could fix this. More abrupt stand ups, yellow cards, more strikes on the ground, or a simple money bonus for finishing a fight. LnP kinda goes hand in hand with my other pet peev.

    Fighters not giving it their all- I may be alone on this, but I hate when a fight goes to a decision, and one fighter, usually the winner isn't even sweating. I mean come on dude, you trained for how many months? I had to watch you sweat and train your ass off on Spike for the last 2 weeks and then you get in there and win, congrats. But you do it without breaking a sweat? Why not turn up the heat on your opponent and go in for the kill?

    Long time in between fighters fighting- I'll give the secondary orgs a break here. But an org like the UFC has so much talent under contract that they could have 2-3 cards every month! I know injurys happen, but I hate when a fighter wins without a scratch and doesnt fight again for 5-6 months. (I love seeing fighters take fights back to back)

    SF, DW, steroids and everything else is just growing pains right now IMO.

    If they fix the bad decisions that happen to go the distance, try to make the fights as exciting as possible, and keep stacked cards rolling, MMA will do just fine.
  • 12-26-2010, 07:11 PM
    GangGreenWarrior
    Blatant mismatch fights are what is hurting the sport the most. A brutal KTFO is a double edged sword for the sport. Sure, many fans like seeing a guy get finished. It's exciting, and doesn't leave any issues of judging. At the same time, it's more ammo for anyone looking to not all MMA in their state. Look at the last SF card with Daley and Lawler scoring those brutal KOs. How far were Smith and Lindland away from serious or long term damage? The sport cannot afford to have a serious/fatal injury in the higher levels. That story will get picked up and the media will run with, especially if they have footage of the fight. If that happens, the sport would be set back a good 5 years at least.
  • 12-26-2010, 06:54 PM
    born2kill
    Quote Originally Posted by Sakara=Excitement View Post
    If anyone thinks Dana White is the problem, you are fucking mental.

    Name me 5 people who have advanced the sport more from a media standpoint and a global standpoint?
    Dana is a huge problem. Hes become the face of MMA to the mainstream. And when he acts like an immature jackass, he makes his company, the fighters, and its fans all look stupid.
    He tampers with the in ring product by making tacit threats that if they dont fight the style he prefers to watch they risk hurting their careers(despite results). Again, terrible for the "sport".
    Most of the so-called advancement hes contributed to is for his company, the UFC brand, but not for mma. He craps on most anything not UFC after all, and tries to direct everything happening within the UFC like the fighters are cattle hes hearding.

    To his credit he signed off on The Ultimate Fighter. Even thou its a direct ripoff of Tough Enough, it has been great helping younger fighters getting exposure and landing fight jobs, in the UFC and out.
    Hes also kept Joe Rogan on commentary and hasnt censored him much. And Joe actually helps mma alot by explaining technique.
    I'll give Dana credit for that and only that.
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