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  • 02-04-2013, 04:14 PM
    rivethead
    Quote Originally Posted by macewen View Post
    i personally think weirdman...
    Weirdman? Really? You're better than that...tell me this is a typo or some auto-correct nonsense.

    ...has to beat a legit top 5. Ok munoz?? Does ANYBODY right now, or even when they fought think munoz is in the top 5 mws in the world? Sometimes rankings do this, but i dont personally, (i think a LOT agree with me) think Mark is a top 5 fighter.
    Even after the loss to Chris, I still have Munoz as a top 5 MW. I'd be interested to see your rankings if you don't.



    But really, Anderson's resume is full of fighters who didn't beat a top 5 guy to face him: Cote, Lietes, even Maia and Belfort at the time of their bouts. Lombard would have gotten a title shot without ever beating a "legit" top 5 if he'd beaten Boetsch. Bisping would have gotten a title shot if he'd gotten past Vitor.

    That kind of logic only works if it can be applied unilaterally.

    And with Anderson's camp begging for a shot a Cung Le, the entire concept is doomed from the beginning.

    Weidman isn't as solid as he could be, but he's ranked the highest right now and the timelines work out. The UFC has overhyped worse fighters--some, even to face Anderson. It would probably be better for both of their careers if Weidman had been able to face Boetsch in December [and win, a big if] but he's really the best solution at this point.

    I could see Anderson/Rockhold while Weidman gets another bout, but you could make a case for Luke needing another big win just as easily as you could for Chris. But this July, it will be another year since Anderson has defended, and that's too long between defenses. He needs to face somebody, and that decision shouldn't be made on how many buys it will do in China, it should be the best MW available.

    rh
  • 02-04-2013, 01:00 PM
    W.Silva>C.Norris
    Quote Originally Posted by Goremire View Post
    June 2012

    Rank Fighter Points Promotion Last Rank
    1 Anderson Silva 325 UFC 1
    2 Chael Sonnen 312 UFC 2
    3 Mark Munoz 286 UFC 3
    4 Vitor Belfort 263 UFC 4
    5 Michael Bisping 256 UFC 5
    6 Tim Boetsch 226 UFC 7
    7 Luke Rockhold 224 Strikeforce 6
    8 Yushin Okami 221 UFC 8
    9 Chris Weidman 206 UFC 9
    10 Brian Stann 206 UFC 10

    Yep, Sonnen was at number 2 (as the June 2012 rankings above show) but lost the week prior to Silva, so Munoz was indeed number 2 in the eyes of most MMA sites when he fought Weidman. Prior to that he was number 3, ahead of Belfort who (at the time) had wins over Akiyama and Johnson. Bisping came in at number 5 despite not having any wins over top ten competition at the time. Boetch had TKO'd Okami in February (hence their respective positions in the rankings), Rockhold TKO'd middleweight debutant and perenniall cage-napper Keith Jardine in January, and Weidman beat Maia in January as well.

    Again we hear Munoz being called out as not being worthy of his ranking. My view is that he earned his ranking by beating everyone at middleweight the UFC put in front of him barring Okami. I don't think you can re-order the above rankings to drop Munoz down without serious historical revision.
    Thanks. good to see some people actually look at statistics and dont just listen to whatever bisping tells them to think.

    Oh, and Joeodd, if you want to watch fights based solely on popularity and how many ppv buys they earn, RAW is on monday nights.
  • 02-04-2013, 08:31 AM
    Goremire
    Quote Originally Posted by Sniggles View Post
    Mark Munoz was ranked #2 at the time of Weidman/Munoz.

    Look it up.

    Just because you say Munoz is no good does not change the fact that Munoz was being groomed for a title shot against Anderson Silva at that point in history.
    June 2012

    Rank Fighter Points Promotion Last Rank
    1 Anderson Silva 325 UFC 1
    2 Chael Sonnen 312 UFC 2
    3 Mark Munoz 286 UFC 3
    4 Vitor Belfort 263 UFC 4
    5 Michael Bisping 256 UFC 5
    6 Tim Boetsch 226 UFC 7
    7 Luke Rockhold 224 Strikeforce 6
    8 Yushin Okami 221 UFC 8
    9 Chris Weidman 206 UFC 9
    10 Brian Stann 206 UFC 10

    Yep, Sonnen was at number 2 (as the June 2012 rankings above show) but lost the week prior to Silva, so Munoz was indeed number 2 in the eyes of most MMA sites when he fought Weidman. Prior to that he was number 3, ahead of Belfort who (at the time) had wins over Akiyama and Johnson. Bisping came in at number 5 despite not having any wins over top ten competition at the time. Boetch had TKO'd Okami in February (hence their respective positions in the rankings), Rockhold TKO'd middleweight debutant and perenniall cage-napper Keith Jardine in January, and Weidman beat Maia in January as well.

    Again we hear Munoz being called out as not being worthy of his ranking. My view is that he earned his ranking by beating everyone at middleweight the UFC put in front of him barring Okami. I don't think you can re-order the above rankings to drop Munoz down without serious historical revision.
  • 02-04-2013, 06:59 AM
    Sniggles
    Quote Originally Posted by macewen View Post
    i personally think weirdman has to beat a legit top 5. Ok munoz?? Does ANYBODY right now, or even when they fought think munoz is in the top 5 mws in the world? Sometimes rankings do this, but i dont personally, (i think a LOT agree with me) think Mark is a top 5 fighter. 10, sure, but ya dont get title shots with one top 10 win. I know others have bla bla bla, but the same people bitch about that and then want chris to get the shot. Weidman vs Lombard sounds good to me. If vitor knocked weidman off, it doesnt really advance the division awhole lot, if Lombard does...hell id rather watch hector vs anderson then weidman vs anderson anyday. and Lombards loss to boetsch was kinda bullshit all around anyway. and anderson...he can do whatever it is he does while not fighting
    Mark Munoz was ranked #2 at the time of Weidman/Munoz.

    Look it up.

    Just because you say Munoz is no good does not change the fact that Munoz was being groomed for a title shot against Anderson Silva at that point in history.
  • 02-04-2013, 06:49 AM
    m1ckeykn0x
    *cough*

    The cloud of ignorance about this subject is so thick that I don't even care to respond or I might choke on shit.
  • 02-04-2013, 06:47 AM
    macewen
    i personally think weirdman has to beat a legit top 5. Ok munoz?? Does ANYBODY right now, or even when they fought think munoz is in the top 5 mws in the world? Sometimes rankings do this, but i dont personally, (i think a LOT agree with me) think Mark is a top 5 fighter. 10, sure, but ya dont get title shots with one top 10 win. I know others have bla bla bla, but the same people bitch about that and then want chris to get the shot. Weidman vs Lombard sounds good to me. If vitor knocked weidman off, it doesnt really advance the division awhole lot, if Lombard does...hell id rather watch hector vs anderson then weidman vs anderson anyday. and Lombards loss to boetsch was kinda bullshit all around anyway. and anderson...he can do whatever it is he does while not fighting
  • 02-04-2013, 06:15 AM
    Rumble
    Goddamn, what took so long?
  • 02-04-2013, 06:07 AM
    Bork_Lazer
    I'm hearing more and more people agree with the fact that Weidman should get this shot by process of elimination, which really means he didn't really earn it. So, the way I see it, if he gets it that's great, but if he doesn't, he is not being robbed. If anything Boetsch should have gotten the shot, since Weidnman pulled out of their fight which was going to determine who would get the title shot, but he didnt, so why should Weidman get the shot then? Again he can get it, but that does not mean he must get it.
  • 02-04-2013, 05:51 AM
    joeodd2
    Wow, that's a powerful arguement......but what do you say when dana asks you how much money would a weidman fight make vs Silva fighting Cung Le in China? or even a super fight against Jon Jones? How do you convince Dana and the UFC that it's better to loose money on a PPV than make money? This I have to hear......

  • 02-04-2013, 02:37 AM
    W.Silva>C.Norris
    what would you say to Dana and Joe Silva to convince them to give it Weidman?
    Stop letting Silva pick and choose his fights, and make him fight the most worthy contender, or give up his belt.
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