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  • 03-25-2013, 05:18 PM
    lwbrewer
    Technical aspects of agents and masks have advanced greatly from my day. 80's & 90's urine wasn't difficult to alter with a little time to prep for. Blood and hair much harder, and hair not sure how they would mask it. With fighters around the world makes it harder to implament a system. If they had to give a sample to accept a fight than twice through trainning and weigh-in day. At least do harder tests for championship matches since these matches have high payouts to support it and set standards for the future for the rest. The biggest hold back to me is the UFC with fear of how many fighters and big matches that would get ruined/ lost.
  • 03-25-2013, 05:06 PM
    rivethead
    Quote Originally Posted by Badluck33 View Post
    Steriod/pharmaceuticals would LOVE this. They have a hard time creating masking agents because they don't know when the testing is. But if you know you have a scheduled test, that same steroid pharm would easily be able to create a masking agent if they knew when the subject was going to get tested for it. Think about it for a min...The steroid pharm creates the roid, then creates the masking agent and then creates your PCT. They just made 3 sales off of one customer!
    ...and they'll eventually get caught when tests catch up, or when one of their employees sells the information to testing centers, etc.

    You could state that anyone found juicing and using a mask is banned for life from the first offense. And then consistently enforce it.

    The system isn't a joke. There is so much grey area that when you get guys like CHael Sonnen who is a person who needs to be on it and has been approved to be on it and is taking it, how are you going to punish him?
    First, you state it's not a joke, but then you mention sonnen as a valid user. That's...odd.

    sonnen is a proven abuser. When he was asked by the commission what the amounts he was injecting himself with routinely, he couldn't come up with an answer. When pressed, he came up with a dosage several times the recommendation.

    I'd punish him by banning his ass for life.

    rh
  • 03-25-2013, 04:25 PM
    Badluck33
    Quote Originally Posted by rivethead View Post
    You'll have world-class athletes testing at 4:1 and over without being on anything. The commission who did the original work for the Olympics found something like one in 4,000 who tested as high as 6:1 without supplements. It's very rare, but it happens.


    I think you'd actually run into legal issues with discrimination.


    I've advocated testing the fighters at their own expense for years now...not just for TRT exemptions, but for anyone who fails a test as well. Personally, I think anyone who fails should be banned for life, first offense...but failing that, I wish the bigger AC's would adopt a policy similar to the NCAA's and simply state that they not condone the use of any supplements, whether they're over the counter or prescribed. Thus, if a fighter fails a test, the whole "ohmybad, I mixed musclemilk and supplement X" is no longer grounds for appeal. Give them a minimum one year suspension and then test them for the next three at their own expense. If they fail a second time at any point in their career, lifetime ban.

    I'd also consider regular testing on 2 week intervals from the moment a bout agreement is signed instead of random. 2 weeks wouldn't give fighters time to cycle on and off, as far as I still understand juicing.


    but yeah, right now, the system is a joke.

    rh
    Steriod/pharmaceuticals would LOVE this. They have a hard time creating masking agents because they don't know when the testing is. But if you know you have a scheduled test, that same steroid pharm would easily be able to create a masking agent if they knew when the subject was going to get tested for it. Think about it for a min...The steroid pharm creates the roid, then creates the masking agent and then creates your PCT. They just made 3 sales off of one customer!

    The system isn't a joke. There is so much grey area that when you get guys like CHael Sonnen who is a person who needs to be on it and has been approved to be on it and is taking it, how are you going to punish him?

    Then you got guys who are healthy enough that do NOT need to be on it, but are figuring out ways to get around it to be on it and being supported/sponsored by the steroid pharm.

    I believe that an effective way of doing this, is having the fighter submit themselves to a physical done by a AC doctor and by his orders and logic is what he is permitted he can dose on (IF NEEDED). If the test levels come at a higher level than what was permitted by doctor, then he can lose purse, get suspended or even lose his license.

    but even with my idea, its still flawed. Fighters can get drunk, eat a shit load of food, not sleep nor have sex for a week prior to physical and the doctor will OK a 6:1 when all he needs is a 3:1.

    Grey area? Ya, i think so....
  • 03-25-2013, 04:15 PM
    Badluck33
    Quote Originally Posted by Fe1 View Post
    That's exactly how I feel about it (although I think Overeem was on roids, not trt) I think anyone with a TRT exemption should be subject to random tests at their own expense throughout their training camp and not just before the fights. I think it should be allowed for those who need it but it shouldn't be easy.
    its essentially the same thing.

    Overeems test levels came back at 10:1 I believe

    That is basically him injecting testosterone into his body so his body can produce more.

    Transgenders do it too but on a way lighter scale. (female to male)

    All AO had to do was to have a 'friend' who is a doctor say its essential for AO to be on TRT and viola! He gets on it. What hes taking ? I do not know but I dont believe it was some oral anabolic.
  • 03-25-2013, 04:00 PM
    Lesnar_FTW
    Just let people juice then no one is considered to be "cheating". People will always finds workarounds and plus with more strength and athleticism you create better fighters. Plus I bet someone like GSP naturally makes more testosterone than me. Thus if I were to want to train for fighting I could juice up and then things would truly be fair as we would have the same amount of testosterone.
  • 03-25-2013, 03:24 PM
    rivethead
    Quote Originally Posted by Fe1 View Post
    I never really understood why they would allow someone to be at 6:1 anyway. It's not out of the realm of possibility for someone to be naturally above 1:1 but being above 4:1 without some sort of funny business is just crazy. The VADA only allows a ratio of 4:1 so why would the athletic commission allow the ratio to be higher?
    You'll have world-class athletes testing at 4:1 and over without being on anything. The commission who did the original work for the Olympics found something like one in 4,000 who tested as high as 6:1 without supplements. It's very rare, but it happens.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramma View Post
    How about like, I dunno, just not allowing it? That'd be nice.
    I think you'd actually run into legal issues with discrimination.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fe1 View Post
    That's exactly how I feel about it (although I think Overeem was on roids, not trt) I think anyone with a TRT exemption should be subject to random tests at their own expense throughout their training camp and not just before the fights. I think it should be allowed for those who need it but it shouldn't be easy.
    I've advocated testing the fighters at their own expense for years now...not just for TRT exemptions, but for anyone who fails a test as well. Personally, I think anyone who fails should be banned for life, first offense...but failing that, I wish the bigger AC's would adopt a policy similar to the NCAA's and simply state that they not condone the use of any supplements, whether they're over the counter or prescribed. Thus, if a fighter fails a test, the whole "ohmybad, I mixed musclemilk and supplement X" is no longer grounds for appeal. Give them a minimum one year suspension and then test them for the next three at their own expense. If they fail a second time at any point in their career, lifetime ban.

    I'd also consider regular testing on 2 week intervals from the moment a bout agreement is signed instead of random. 2 weeks wouldn't give fighters time to cycle on and off, as far as I still understand juicing.

    but yeah, right now, the system is a joke.

    rh
  • 03-25-2013, 03:09 PM
    Fe1
    Quote Originally Posted by Badluck33 View Post
    I'm not against TRT but I am against the abuse of TRT (Overeem, Nate Marq)
    That's exactly how I feel about it (although I think Overeem was on roids, not trt) I think anyone with a TRT exemption should be subject to random tests at their own expense throughout their training camp and not just before the fights. I think it should be allowed for those who need it but it shouldn't be easy.
  • 03-25-2013, 01:57 PM
    Badluck33
    Quote Originally Posted by Qball1974 View Post
    It's a start but i'd rather they ban it.
    then any one over 30 will be at a great disadvantage vs anyone in their mid-20's.

    I'm not against TRT but I am against the abuse of TRT (Overeem, Nate Marq)
  • 03-25-2013, 04:15 AM
    CtGreat
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramma View Post
    How about like, I dunno, just not allowing it? That'd be nice.
    Pretty much this.

    Does it suck for those that actually need TRT? Yea, but fighting isn't for everybody.
  • 03-25-2013, 03:47 AM
    LefthookStcrook
    The medical standard is 1:1...and they allow 6:1 lol. why not make it 2:1? That's still double the average.

    Im at 1:1 and my opponent is at 6:1, sounds feel fair.
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