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  • 08-07-2013, 10:50 PM
    trustkill
    Much appreciated.
  • 08-07-2013, 09:35 PM
    rivethead
    Quote Originally Posted by trustkill View Post
    I know this has been discussed before, but I would greatly appreciate a quick synopsis on how you "normalize" fighters across weight classes to evaluate P4P rankings.
    Personally, I've always followed the boxing adage that described p4p as how would fighters fare if they were all the same size. Weight is just one aspect of size, and the concept is diluted further with how ludicrous weight-cutting has become the standard in MMA. Weight is harder to quantify, as you don't have a lot of fighters who actually publicize their walk around weights, how much they cut, and what their cageside weight is. So you're in a grey area right off the bat, and I freely acknowledge that people's concepts and definitions of p4p are going to be different.

    Something easier to actually quantify accurately is length advantages, with height and reach. It's interesting that most people have Anderson, Georges and Jones as their top 3, and all three of those guys typically boast serious length advantages over their opponents--with Jones, it reaches the ridiculous level. I've stated it before, but there are a lot of people salivating over the prospect of a Jones/Cormier matchup in the future. If Cormier actually manages to make 205, Jones would boast over 20" in length advantage on him. A win over Cormier should not be a big asset to Jones' p4p resume, in my opinion. When you're an elite fighter and you have that big of an advantage before anyone steps into the cage...you should be winning the fight. Something is seriously fucked if you don't win it.

    With size in perspective, I look to skillsets. Are they a single discipline fighter, are they well rounded? Are there any glaring holes in their game? A well-rounded fighter is going to get more credit p4p in my rankings than a one trick pony. Similarly, someone with a glaring hole in their game is going to have a harder time being considered elite for me.

    Finally I look at their actual resume, the fighters they've faced and how they fared. What was the quality of their opponents, and how did they approach/execute the fight? When you have a guy who is beating the best at their own games, they shine in terms of pound for pound, in my opinion.

    Aldo is on a 13 or 14 fight win streak, I think. He's been kingpin at FW for almost 4 years. In that time, he's beaten multiple elite fighters from higher weight classes who've moved down to beat him, he's beaten multiple fighters who were ranked as elite p4p in their own right. He's got no serious holes in his game...the biggest question one can pose is his conditioning, but it hasn't failed him yet. He's beating legitimate contenders that he gives up size to--generally the opposite of the Anderson/Georges/Jones scenario. I mean, Anderson gets credit for moving up to LHW and beating Irvin [who was actively addicted to narcotics during their bout, and who Anderson was actually bigger than] and for beating Forrest [who is considered a "huge" LHW, and yet their height/reach stats come out to be virtually the same]. Aldo accomplished more than that by beating Florian and Edgar, and zuffa didn't make any kind of a big deal about it. Georges gets enormous tuffguy credit for fighting Hardy [a guy who talked his way into a title shot and should never have been ranked top 10] with a pulled groin...Aldo just finished CSJ by kicking him with the foot he'd broken 15 minutes earlier.

    I feel Aldo has less holes in his game, has beaten better competition--guys he often gave up size advantages to--and has an exemplary resume.

    Again, you're welcome to your own opinions, but that's a bit of insight on how I formulate mine.

    rh
  • 08-07-2013, 03:46 PM
    Sniggles
    Quote Originally Posted by KevoOnTheRadio View Post
    So the weight cut. Not enough water? Cormier had kidney issues when he was cutting weight, I wonder if it's similar. I really think it might be time for him to take a long hard look at Lightweight.
    Bingo. Dehydration with not enough water in system to dilute abundance of calcium.
  • 08-07-2013, 03:38 PM
    KevoOnTheRadio
    Quote Originally Posted by Sniggles View Post
    Has nothing to do with age more to due with trauma, diet or metabolism.
    So the weight cut. Not enough water? Cormier had kidney issues when he was cutting weight, I wonder if it's similar. I really think it might be time for him to take a long hard look at Lightweight.
  • 08-07-2013, 03:34 PM
    Sniggles
    Quote Originally Posted by KevoOnTheRadio View Post
    Isn't he a little young to have kidney stones?
    Has nothing to do with age more to due with trauma, diet or metabolism.
  • 08-07-2013, 03:31 PM
    KevoOnTheRadio
    Isn't he a little young to have kidney stones?
  • 08-07-2013, 03:24 PM
    Cat--Smasher
    http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news...kidney-stones/
    Aldo hospitalized with kidney stones

    Dr. Marcio Tannure, the UFC’s doctor in Brazil, told MMAFighting.com that the UFC featherweight champion was taken to Copa D’Or hospital in Copacabana, Rio de Janeiro and diagnosed with kidney stones Tuesday. UOL first reported the news.

    "I learned about this problem with Andre (Pederneiras, Aldo’s coach)," Tannure told MMAFighting.com on Tuesday. "He had renal calculus (kidney stones) before. He needs to send me the results of the exams so I can check it. Andre told me it’s not serious, and he probably already expelled the stones."
  • 08-07-2013, 01:28 PM
    KevoOnTheRadio
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmicsunn View Post
    jose aldo hospitalised with kidney stones.

    do you guys think its got something to do with huge amount of weight cut??
    I don't know. But if it does have something to do with it, might be time for the lightweight division.
  • 08-07-2013, 01:00 PM
    cosmicsunn
    jose aldo hospitalised with kidney stones.

    do you guys think its got something to do with huge amount of weight cut??
  • 08-07-2013, 12:39 AM
    trustkill
    Quote Originally Posted by rivethead View Post
    Anyone who has Jones higher than Aldo p4p has no clue what they're talking about.

    Can you imagine the hype if Jones beat someone who was 6'6" with an 89" reach? Or if Anderson beat a legitimate, ranked MW who was 6"4" with an 81" reach? Or if Georges actually managed to finish a fight with a fighter 6'1 and an 80" reach? again, dana would be PRgasming all over the internets.

    Aldo is my #1 p4p fighter.

    rh
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. MMA View Post
    Agree. It should be clear as night and day that Aldo is the #1 p4p fighter right now. I was starting to put him above Anderson already before Anderson lost. Aldo's overall skillset is just plain better than Anderson, GSP, Jones, Cain, etc. Unlike the others he doesn't have a glaring weakness. His striking offensively from boxing to kicks, and defensively from his head movement to weaving and ducking, his takedowns and takedown defense, and his ground and pound is some of the best in the game. Really his only weakness has been his cardio in the last couple of rounds and honestly the only time I've seen that exploited was against Hominick, a fight that he had his hardest weight cut coming off an injury. Against Florian and Frankie, two guys with amazing cardio, he still beat both of them in the 5th round.

    Can't wait to see him eventually go to 155. He has the best shot from any of the champions to be a dual weight class champion.
    I know this has been discussed before, but I would greatly appreciate a quick synopsis on how you "normalize" fighters across weight classes to evaluate P4P rankings.

    Thanks
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