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  • 08-27-2013, 11:44 PM
    Sniggles
    Quote Originally Posted by SimpleJack View Post
    There's no doubt in my mind it did help.

    Koscheck dedicated an inordinate amount of time to training standup and basically forgot about his bread and butter.
    Imagine a Koscheck that could shred people in guard at will. That would be his best evolution.
  • 08-27-2013, 06:55 PM
    rivethead
    Quote Originally Posted by dan the man 67 View Post
    It has been a while since I have seen the Hieron fight.
    Neither fighter was at the level they later developed into...but Georges really won that one striking.

    Kos getting caught off guard? Okay, so he was caught off guard the 1st time he was put on his back. He should have been able to respond and alter his gameplan accordingly after being caught off-guard. That is not an excuse that is applicable after said 1st takedown.
    Watch this one again, too. I know you're a huge GSP fan, but from your posts I trust that you can suspend bias and really check it out. Kos did respond well to the TD in their first fight. Georges was the one who had to alter his gameplan...he switched to a much more strike-heavy game plan for the rest of the fight. Go back and watch it again before buying into the revisionist history that Georges "totally outwrestled" Kos. He didn't. Georges caught at TD early, got reversed, and then got stuffed. He then imposed a symphony of jabs and striking at range to keep Kos off balance for the rest of the night, mixing in the TD when Kos left an opening. His best grappling was his top control in the second round.

    I think GSP still had the edge in their 2nd fight. If a national Division 1 champ like Kos couldn't utilize his wrestling to dominate GSP, I cannot see any other wrestler doing a whole lot better, not enough to win a fight based predominantly on wrestling skill.
    In the second fight, the grappling was even closer until the championship rounds, where Georges' legendary conditioning served him the most. But again, you were looking at St. Pierre fluidly mixing in versatile strikes from range to prevent Koscheck from ever gaining equilibrium, and then exploiting opportunity as soon as it was presented.

    Of course he'd do the same thing to Askren. Minimally, Askren had his hands full with Hieron. I still have Jay winning that fight.

    GSP's wrestling abilities are enough to neutralize the very best of wrestlers, forcing them to go to other skills to try and win a fight. Askren's other skills are nowhere close to being enough to take GSP.
    I think it would look a lot like the second Kos fight.

    But that doesn't mean that either of them wouldn't light Georges up if strikes were removed from the equation.

    If Askren comes to the UFC, I think it will be a massive wake-up call for him. It is like going from the minor leagues to the majors...... The very best are in the UFC, and he hasn't faced any of them yet.
    I think he'd do pretty well until he got to the top 5, even as a one-trick pony. His one trick is that good.

    rh
  • 08-27-2013, 05:52 PM
    SimpleJack
    I'm not sure I agree with that logic.

    GSP had Koscheck all but finished without using any wrestling.

    It's not like GSP will suddenly freeze up and say, "Holy crap, I can't use my wrestling against one of the best wrestlers I've ever seen!"

    He'll immediately start the front leg kick and jab him into oblivion. Hendricks' tendency to put his head down and throw looping punches SHOULD certainly be easy pickings for the jab, step-out, followed by the 1-2.
  • 08-27-2013, 05:39 PM
    Masscore
    Quote Originally Posted by SimpleJack View Post
    There's no doubt in my mind it did help.

    Koscheck dedicated an inordinate amount of time to training standup and basically forgot about his bread and butter.
    So I think people should use that when they look at the GSP v. Hendrick fight. When a top level wrestler brings his A game, he shuts GSP down in the wrestling department. All of GSP's takeodwns where in the 4th and 5th rounds when in all honesty the fight should have been stopped because Koscheck couldn't see. Hendricks is every bit the wrestler Koscheck is and if he is smart and trains in wrestling like he should GSP could be in a world of trouble.
  • 08-27-2013, 05:32 PM
    SimpleJack
    There's no doubt in my mind it did help.

    Koscheck dedicated an inordinate amount of time to training standup and basically forgot about his bread and butter.
  • 08-27-2013, 05:22 PM
    Masscore
    Quote Originally Posted by SimpleJack View Post
    Strangely enough, Koscheck went to Askren to train for the second GSP fight I believe.
    And GSP only landed 3 of 9 takedowns on a man with one eye. So I guess it helped.
  • 08-27-2013, 05:16 PM
    SimpleJack
    Strangely enough, Koscheck went to Askren to train for the second GSP fight I believe.
  • 08-27-2013, 04:30 PM
    dan the man 67
    Quote Originally Posted by kalebarker View Post
    You haven't seen the Hieron fight have you? GSP only had one or 2 takedown attempts that were easily stuffed . He just completely worked him on the feet. The first Koscheck fight I think kos was just surprised by gsps wrestling and got caught off guard. In the rematch the wrestling was very even.
    It has been a while since I have seen the Hieron fight.

    Kos getting caught off guard? Okay, so he was caught off guard the 1st time he was put on his back. He should have been able to respond and alter his gameplan accordingly after being caught off-guard. That is not an excuse that is applicable after said 1st takedown.

    I think GSP still had the edge in their 2nd fight. If a national Division 1 champ like Kos couldn't utilize his wrestling to dominate GSP, I cannot see any other wrestler doing a whole lot better, not enough to win a fight based predominantly on wrestling skill. GSP's wrestling abilities are enough to neutralize the very best of wrestlers, forcing them to go to other skills to try and win a fight. Askren's other skills are nowhere close to being enough to take GSP.

    If Askren comes to the UFC, I think it will be a massive wake-up call for him. It is like going from the minor leagues to the majors...... The very best are in the UFC, and he hasn't faced any of them yet.
  • 08-27-2013, 02:04 PM
    KevoOnTheRadio
    Quote Originally Posted by roaddawg View Post
    A fighter with a strong enough skillset can be successful. Brock Lesnar was no mixed martial artist and did quite well in the UFC. Ronda Rousey only knows JJ and look at where she is.

    Sometimes a dominant skillset is all that's required
  • 08-27-2013, 05:07 AM
    AnchorPunch
    Silva only lost to Rousey because his shoelace was untied.
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