Reply to Thread

Post a reply to the thread: Michael Bisping: Belfort will find new way to cheat, Weidman will get another asteris

Your Message

Click here to log in

What Is Quinton Jackson's Nickname?

 
 

You may choose an icon for your message from this list

Additional Options

  • Will turn www.example.com into [URL]http://www.example.com[/URL].

HTML

Topic Review (Newest First)

  • 02-28-2014, 03:57 PM
    Fedorlei Gomipierre
    Quote Originally Posted by rivethead View Post
    That alone is going to be formidable.

    If he was juicing, he's going to be THAT much MORE formidable.

    I don't think we'll ever know the full backstory, but time will tell, I guess. That's if he ever fights again.

    rh
    That I 100% agree with.
  • 02-28-2014, 03:41 PM
    rivethead
    Fedorhuckleberrylie, I'm not saying it can all be attributed to Priscila, by any means.

    I think it's more likely than not that Vitor is [was?] abusing TRT. But it's not definite, any more than my suspicions about lesnar or overeem or whomever.

    In terms of his lackluster performances as a kid [I thought he and Wandi started about the same time?], I think you also have to factor in that he was probably young, dumb and full of c....onfidence. I can't help but think a kid of his talent was running around partying and wasn't focused. His early interviews indicate to me that he was confident in his natural ability and wasn't killing himself in the gym. Not to mention that he was fighting outside his weight half the time.

    But fast forward to 2007 and onward, he's married, he's found the baby Jesus, he's had a brush with discipline from the failed test [whether his doc was lying or not, that's still got to be a bit unnerving for a fighter]...this is approaching last-chance-ville. He's got all the experience--both physical/training and out-of-the-gym to indicate what he should be doing, he's finally getting world-class money to pay for world-class guidance, he gets to lay to rest his doubts and fears about his sister and focus.

    That alone is going to be formidable.

    If he was juicing, he's going to be THAT much MORE formidable.



    I don't think we'll ever know the full backstory, but time will tell, I guess. That's if he ever fights again.

    rh
  • 02-28-2014, 10:58 AM
    Fedorlei Gomipierre
    Quote Originally Posted by rivethead View Post
    I can't say if Belfort is abusing TRT or not...I don't think anyone can, regardless of their self-righteous--and often hypocritical--attitudes. I think it's as likely as not, but the absolute conviction people have on the subject is pretty pathetic.

    But since you're bringing up Vitor's career, you need to factor in one enormous issue that is hardly ever brought up in the discussion of Vitor and juicing. Vitor was an absolute monster when he first started the sport. His first big streak he looks something similar to his latest run, where he had something like 10 wins with his losses only coming to Couture, Sakuraba and Liddell--and he was a kid at the time, something like 22 years old, fighting all three of those guys during, or at the start of, their dominant runs.

    And then Priscila went missing. He had no idea if she was alive, if she was dead, or what had happened.

    A huge part of the fight game is mental. Joe Riggs can tell you about having all the physical tools to succeed, but not the mental/emotional component.

    Priscilla's loss put snakes in Vitor's head. The period where nobody had accurate information on her fate is the darkest period of his history.



    When did Vitor finally get word on her fate? At the start of his most recent success, right after the loss to Dan Henderson.



    I'm not trying to convince anyone he's not a juicer. I don't really care about anyone else's opinion on that, as it's all conjecture at best. But I do want to postulate that having an emotional resolution of that magnitude can have a huge impact on a fighter's focus and their performance, both in training and in the cage.

    rh
    I' won't challenge the Randy III, Tito, Hendo losses too much because as you acknowledged, he had the personal turmoil etc. But when you look at "method of victory" let's say, 36 year old Vitor is just blowing pre-Priscilla Vitor out of the water with regard to finishing rate and against a FAAAAAAR higher level of competition than he was facing then.

    We've had this discussion before, Priscilla disappeared in January of 2004, so for argument's sake, let's say the "Pre-Priscilla" Vitor's record stood at 11-3, analyzing those fights prior, what you referred to as his "first big streak". IMO, we'd already seen him win some pretty uninspired decisions against Herring, Matsui and Yvel. During his first PRIDE run, which had nothing to do with his sister, he looked listless and wasn't a "contender" so to speak. Of those wins on his record, he had the squash UFC tournament and Joe Charles. Really, his only real "important wins" came against Wandy(who was also still a pup) and Tank. Couture was supposed to be a body for Vitor as they built him and Couture outsmarted him stylistically, but I wouldn't account for that loss in the same vein as Chuck and Sakuraba's, as Randy was new to the sport as well(albeit older in age).

    My endgame is, there's no accounting for his poor performances in PRIDE the first time around outside of a simple slump, but the first half of his career- pre-Priscilla- doesn't look as good as what we've seen since his most recent UFC run and I think from a statistical perspective, those fights don't look consistent, factoring finishing rate, level of opposition etc.

    True, the mental game is an unbelievably MAJOR factor, I just do not believe the fighter Vitor is today should be as good as he is, and when you take a look at a sample of his "prime fighting years" (some of which were lost due to his sister's murder, that's taken into account, so let's go Eastman and prior), he's far exceeded what I'd attribute to "the mental game" at a late stage in his career. The fact that he's also been popped once before is a red flag.
  • 02-28-2014, 06:17 AM
    rivethead
    Quote Originally Posted by Fedorlei Gomipierre View Post
    Think of it like this, Vitor was 14-8 at age 29 when he was popped after the Hendo fight in 2006.

    Over the past eight years since, he's gone 10 and 2 only dropping bouts to Jones and Silva-WOW. That's really impressive and dare I say, TOO IMPRESSIVE from a statistical perspective, given that traditionally speaking- he should be winding down his career, already hit his peak and should be experiencing a gradual plateau and decline....yet instead we're seeing career highlights with his advancement in age, looking far and far superior with each and every fight.

    This shouldn't happen, and having already been popped once while also having a bad reputation prior to being popped, massive question marks and alarm bells should go off every time Vitor fights. Go back and look at the statistics of MLB baseball players in the late 90s to mid '00s, you're going to see ALOT of major statistical anomalies, where guys hit a career plateau around 30, begin to decline and then, against common sense, SURGE in their mid to late 30s....

    Vitor will be 37 years old on April Fools and his last three wins will have been against ranked opponents via VIOLENT finishes and is now fighting for the title. He's been fighting dirty. The question now is, which route is he going to take? A) He'll find another way to cheat or B) Fight clean and start looking human and get the hell kicked out of you. If he goes with the later, Vitor's going to look like a completely different fighter.....like a 37 year old without any extra pickmeups
    I can't say if Belfort is abusing TRT or not...I don't think anyone can, regardless of their self-righteous--and often hypocritical--attitudes. I think it's as likely as not, but the absolute conviction people have on the subject is pretty pathetic.

    But since you're bringing up Vitor's career, you need to factor in one enormous issue that is hardly ever brought up in the discussion of Vitor and juicing. Vitor was an absolute monster when he first started the sport. His first big streak he looks something similar to his latest run, where he had something like 10 wins with his losses only coming to Couture, Sakuraba and Liddell--and he was a kid at the time, something like 22 years old, fighting all three of those guys during, or at the start of, their dominant runs.

    And then Priscila went missing. He had no idea if she was alive, if she was dead, or what had happened.

    A huge part of the fight game is mental. Joe Riggs can tell you about having all the physical tools to succeed, but not the mental/emotional component.

    Priscilla's loss put snakes in Vitor's head. The period where nobody had accurate information on her fate is the darkest period of his history.



    When did Vitor finally get word on her fate? At the start of his most recent success, right after the loss to Dan Henderson.



    I'm not trying to convince anyone he's not a juicer. I don't really care about anyone else's opinion on that, as it's all conjecture at best. But I do want to postulate that having an emotional resolution of that magnitude can have a huge impact on a fighter's focus and their performance, both in training and in the cage.

    rh
  • 02-28-2014, 04:57 AM
    mmawolverine
    well if i were bisping id like to forget those trt losses too, cant say i blame the guy for trying to stay relevant not that its working he better get past kennedy with a finish. there a bunch of brazilian who dont need trt standing in the way. i dont think he can beat any of the four brazilians. if chael sticks around id like to see a rematch
  • 02-28-2014, 03:19 AM
    H0SS
  • 02-28-2014, 02:29 AM
    Flou
    I'm pretty sure Bisping lives in some alternative reality or that he truly did get hit too hard by Hendo. It's absolutely bs to say he lost because his opponents were on TRT. Guess what Michael, Hendo's TRT treatment didn't make you dance into Hendo's fist that was just you on your own, going the wrong way inside the octagon. Nor did Vitor's TRT make you drop your guard and get hit with a vicious kick in the head.

    Yes it sucks, people used TRT and I'm glad they finally banned it, but someone as dirty as Bisping should keep his mouth shut. I just wish someone not on TRT will beat Bisping soundly so we can hear his excuses for his loss.
  • 02-28-2014, 01:04 AM
    Pasha K
    Even if that is true, he already fought 2 times for the title.
    Bisping has never earned a UFC title shot.
  • 02-28-2014, 01:01 AM
    IceCold48
    Quote Originally Posted by Pasha K View Post
    Bisping is just jealous because Vitor has achieved more than him. At least Belfort has fought for the title and will do it again.

    Even if he loses again, the simple fact that he fights for the title is a bigger achievement than anything Bisping has done in his MMA career.
    Vitor isn't fighting for the title anymore the UFC is about to announce it.
  • 02-28-2014, 01:00 AM
    Pasha K
    Bisping is just jealous because Vitor has achieved more than him. At least Belfort has fought for the title 2 times in the last 3 years and will do it again.

    Even if he loses again, the simple fact that he fights for the title is a bigger achievement than anything Bisping has done in his MMA career.
This thread has more than 10 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

Posting Permissions

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may post attachments
  • You may edit your posts
  •